Psi development discussion, mainly of the UI and roadmap

Alistair John Strachan | 1 Feb 2005 04:43

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Composing... event should be optional

Hi,

Psi 0.9.3 is an excellent release, but I'd like to request that the 
Composing.. JEP-22 addition be an optional extra in the next version.

Emitting <composing/> events has minor privacy issues, or some people simply 
do not like the addition to the chat dialogue window.

http://psi-im.org/flyspray/index.php?do=details&id=374

If nobody feels like tidying this up, I can cook up a patch.

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Michał Jazłowiecki | 1 Feb 2005 06:25

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Re: Composing... event should be optional

Alistair John Strachan napisał(a):
> Hi,
> 
> Psi 0.9.3 is an excellent release, but I'd like to request that the 
> Composing.. JEP-22 addition be an optional extra in the next version.

Visit Psi|Options|Advanced|Enable message events.

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Michał Jazłowiecki

Nolan Eakins | 2 Feb 2005 05:44

Re: Composing... event should be optional


Michał Jazłowiecki wrote:
|> Psi 0.9.3 is an excellent release, but I'd like to request that the
|> Composing.. JEP-22 addition be an optional extra in the next version.
|
| Visit Psi|Options|Advanced|Enable message events.
|
|

That should probably be moved to the options page for "Chat", and named
"Composing events" like Pintail suggested.

Nolan

Andrew Kohlsmith | 1 Feb 2005 10:59

Re: Re: Composing... event should be optional

On February 1, 2005 12:25 am, Michał Jazłowiecki wrote:
> > Psi 0.9.3 is an excellent release, but I'd like to request that the
> > Composing.. JEP-22 addition be an optional extra in the next version.
>
> Visit Psi|Options|Advanced|Enable message events.

Ugh.  Where, praytell, is that documented anywhere?  "Message Events" already 
has several meanings in Jabber.  I had it enabled because I thought it had 
something to do with, well, message events (as opposed to chat events).

Yes, yes, I know, I know... read the source...  my own fault really.

"Message Events" seems like the right phrase to use but what then do we call 
the actual message events?

-A.

Trejkaz | 5 Feb 2005 05:48

Re: Re: Composing... event should be optional

On Tuesday 01 February 2005 20:59, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote:
> On February 1, 2005 12:25 am, Michał Jazłowiecki wrote:
> > > Psi 0.9.3 is an excellent release, but I'd like to request that the
> > > Composing.. JEP-22 addition be an optional extra in the next version.
> >
> > Visit Psi|Options|Advanced|Enable message events.
>
> Ugh.  Where, praytell, is that documented anywhere?  "Message Events"
> already has several meanings in Jabber.  I had it enabled because I thought
> it had something to do with, well, message events (as opposed to chat
> events).

Where, praytell, are message stanzas, or packets, defined as being events? 

TX

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On Tuesday 01 February 2005 20:59, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote:
> On February 1, 2005 12:25 am, Michał Jazłowiecki wrote:
> > > Psi 0.9.3 is an excellent release, but I'd like to request that the
> > > Composing.. JEP-22 addition be an optional extra in the next version.
> >
> > Visit Psi|Options|Advanced|Enable message events.
>

(Continue reading)

Yves Goergen | 1 Feb 2005 20:20

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Re: Re: Composing... event should be optional

On 01.02.2005 10:59 (+0100), Andrew Kohlsmith wrote:
> "Message Events" seems like the right phrase to use but what then do we call 
> the actual message events?

Why don't we call it "Message status events"? What was just the other
events? Delivery status and such, was it?

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Kris Vandebroek | 1 Feb 2005 11:04

Re: Re: Composing... event should be optional

> Ugh.  Where, praytell, is that documented anywhere?  "Message Events" already 
> has several meanings in Jabber.  I had it enabled because I thought it had 
> something to do with, well, message events (as opposed to chat events).

"Composing event" might be more clear

Pintail

Remko Troncon | 1 Feb 2005 11:17

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Re: Re: Composing... event should be optional

> "Composing event" might be more clear

Although that is the truth at this point, it is the intention to implement
the other events too. 'Message events' is the name of the JEP, so this is the 
name we are using. The meaning of this option is clarified in the "What's this"
of the option:
	"Enables the sending and requesting of message events such as 
	 'Contact is Typing', ..."

However, i think there are
- only few people who can use 'What's this?' information (i for example can't
  find how to get this info, nor on Linux, nor on Mac OS).
- It is a lot of hassle to get this info IIRC (find the menuitem "What's this",
  click on the option itself)

I think we should drop all the "What's this", and put all this info in
tooltips of the labels (if Qt allows this). This seems the cross-platform 
and intuitive way to do this.

cheers,
Remko

Michail Pishchagin | 2 Feb 2005 06:52

Re: Re: Re: Composing... event should be optional

Remko Troncon wrote:
> I think we should drop all the "What's this", and put all this info in
> tooltips of the labels (if Qt allows this). This seems the cross-platform
> and intuitive way to do this.

Um, I have one little question here :) How to display the What's This help on 
Macs? I tried right-clicking, for no effect :-/.

-mblsha

Remko Troncon | 2 Feb 2005 09:28

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Re: Composing... event should be optional


On 02 Feb 2005, at 6:52, Michail Pishchagin wrote:

> Um, I have one little question here :) How to display the What's This 
> help on
> Macs? I tried right-clicking, for no effect :-/.

This is what i meant: that doesn't exist on Mac OS AFAIK.

cheers,
Remko

Yves Goergen | 1 Feb 2005 20:22

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Re: Re: Re: Composing... event should be optional

On 01.02.2005 11:17 (+0100), Remko Troncon wrote:
> However, i think there are
> - only few people who can use 'What's this?' information (i for example can't
>   find how to get this info, nor on Linux, nor on Mac OS).
> - It is a lot of hassle to get this info IIRC (find the menuitem "What's this",
>   click on the option itself)

What's the problem with "what's this"? Don't other platforms than
Windows support this? I can see a little "?" in the window title bar and
clicking on it, then clicking on the item I don't know instantly shows
up a little description in-place.

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Justin Karneges | 1 Feb 2005 11:50

Re: Re: Re: Composing... event should be optional


On Tuesday 01 February 2005 05:17 am, Remko Troncon wrote:
> > "Composing event" might be more clear
>
> Although that is the truth at this point, it is the intention to implement
> the other events too. 'Message events' is the name of the JEP, so this is
> the name we are using. The meaning of this option is clarified in the
> "What's this" of the option:
>  "Enables the sending and requesting of message events such as
>   'Contact is Typing', ..."

Does it have to be all or nothing?

-Justin

Remko Troncon | 1 Feb 2005 15:03

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Re: Re: Re: Composing... event should be optional

> Does it have to be all or nothing?

Since there is currently only 1 event, it doesn't matter now. If we have
a more advanced advanced options system, i don't see a problem with
making every single event optional. Although i would never put this in
the UI itself.

cheers,
Remko

Justin Karneges | 1 Feb 2005 12:10

Re: Re: Re: Re: Composing... event should be optional

On Tuesday 01 February 2005 09:03 am, Remko Troncon wrote:
> > Does it have to be all or nothing?
>
> Since there is currently only 1 event, it doesn't matter now. If we have
> a more advanced advanced options system, i don't see a problem with
> making every single event optional. Although i would never put this in
> the UI itself.

What I'd suggest is just having a checkbox for composing events and that's 
all.  For now, it would enough to just change the label text.  Later on, when 
other events are supported, the checkbox would only affect the composing 
event.

-Justin

Andrew Kohlsmith | 1 Feb 2005 11:48

Re: Re: Re: Composing... event should be optional

On February 1, 2005 05:17 am, Remko Troncon wrote:
> Although that is the truth at this point, it is the intention to implement
> the other events too. 'Message events' is the name of the JEP, so this is
> the name we are using. The meaning of this option is clarified in the

Yes, reading the source showed there were several other events that were 
planned, but commented out in 0.9.3.

> I think we should drop all the "What's this", and put all this info in
> tooltips of the labels (if Qt allows this). This seems the cross-platform
> and intuitive way to do this.

I feel that "What's This" and tooltips serve two similar but distinct 
purposes.  Tooltips are (in my opinion) for one-liner help, say under 40 to 
50 characters.  "What's This" help is more paragraph-sized (several 
sentences) and then full-out online or dead-tree help is all the gory 
details.

-A.

Trejkaz | 5 Feb 2005 04:10

Re: Re: Re: Composing... event should be optional

On Tuesday 01 February 2005 21:48, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote:
> On February 1, 2005 05:17 am, Remko Troncon wrote:
> > Although that is the truth at this point, it is the intention to
> > implement the other events too. 'Message events' is the name of the JEP,
> > so this is the name we are using. The meaning of this option is clarified
> > in the
>
> Yes, reading the source showed there were several other events that were
> planned, but commented out in 0.9.3.

It seems there is a new JEP called "Chat States" in Experimental state right 
now which supplants Message Events too.  I wonder if Psi should change the 
name of it even before it can implement it, to save confusion in the 
future. 

TX

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On Tuesday 01 February 2005 21:48, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote:
> On February 1, 2005 05:17 am, Remko Troncon wrote:
> > Although that is the truth at this point, it is the intention to
> > implement the other events too. 'Message events' is the name of the JEP,
> > so this is the name we are using. The meaning of this option is clarified
> > in the

(Continue reading)

Remko Troncon | 5 Feb 2005 10:26

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Re: Composing... event should be optional

On 05 Feb 2005, at 4:10, Trejkaz wrote:

> I wonder if Psi should change the
> name of it even before it can implement it, to save confusion in the
> future. 

Chances are that that JEP will never become draft. The JEP exists for 
ages, and every now and then the discussion arrises of why that JEP 
exists, and why the original JEP wasn't extended.

cheers,
Remko

Trejkaz | 5 Feb 2005 11:39

Re: Re: Composing... event should be optional

On Saturday 05 February 2005 20:26, Remko Troncon wrote:
> On 05 Feb 2005, at 4:10, Trejkaz wrote:
> > I wonder if Psi should change the
> > name of it even before it can implement it, to save confusion in the
> > future. 
>
> Chances are that that JEP will never become draft. The JEP exists for
> ages, and every now and then the discussion arrises of why that JEP
> exists, and why the original JEP wasn't extended.

The last update was only October, so it's not like it's completely stale since 
there are several JEPs where the last update was far longer ago.  Also, I 
keep spotting PSA mentioning this spec as something "coming soon", when 
developers ask how to implement this kind of feature.

TX

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             Email: Trejkaz Xaoza <trejkaz@...>
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         Jabber ID: trejkaz@...
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On Saturday 05 February 2005 20:26, Remko Troncon wrote:
> On 05 Feb 2005, at 4:10, Trejkaz wrote:
> > I wonder if Psi should change the
> > name of it even before it can implement it, to save confusion in the
> > future. 
>

(Continue reading)

Remko Troncon | 1 Feb 2005 09:35

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Re: Composing... event should be optional


On 01 Feb 2005, at 6:25, Michał Jazłowiecki wrote:

> Visit Psi|Options|Advanced|Enable message events.

We should make this a FAQ, and make the FAQ more structured. But guess 
this is a thing for when the Wiki's here.

cheers,
Remko

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