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Matthias Andree | 29 Jul 2008 12:38
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Re: automatically x-post to local group?

clemens fischer schrieb am 2008-07-29:

> On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 14:36:57 +0200 Matthias Andree wrote:
> 
> > clemens fischer:
> >
> >> "Newsgroups: gmane.network.leafnode,local.archive", in the hope the
> >> article is saved to my local group "local.archive". but this doesn't
> >> work. i think it should.
> >
> > Depends a bit on moderator settings. Beyond that, does local.archive
> > exist? Leafnode does not automatically create newsgroups unless they
> > are in an active file or explicitly listed in local.groups.
> 
> yes, local.archive exists in "/etc/leafnode/local.groups":
> 
>   local.archive   y   local archive group, Xpost everything here
> 
> no moderating. i've tried a few combinations, and everything works:
> direct posting works, and even moderating in the sense that get the
> emails. but not cross-posting with non-local and local groups.

Hi Clemens,

that's strange. What's the corresponding nntpd/leafnode logging WRT the
posting?

What's your setting of no_direct_spool in the .../config file?

Do any articles remain in ${spooldir}/in.coming?
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clemens fischer | 29 Jul 2008 19:41
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Re: automatically x-post to local group?

On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:38:00 +0200 Matthias Andree wrote:

> that's strange. What's the corresponding nntpd/leafnode logging WRT
> the posting?

they all look like this (on one line wrapped here):

  2008-07-29_00:15:37.28445 MODERATED POST
  <9242m5x69p1.ln2 <at> nntp.spotteswoode.dnsalias.org>
  gmane.network.leafnode,local.archive

no error indication.

> What's your setting of no_direct_spool in the .../config file?

this setting is commented out, always has been.

> Do any articles remain in ${spooldir}/in.coming?

nope.

> Let's see if we can figure out what's going on...

could it have to do with one article moderated, the other not?

regards, clemens
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Matthias Andree | 29 Jul 2008 20:34
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Re: automatically x-post to local group?

clemens fischer schrieb am 2008-07-29:

> On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:38:00 +0200 Matthias Andree wrote:
> 
> > that's strange. What's the corresponding nntpd/leafnode logging WRT
> > the posting?
> 
> they all look like this (on one line wrapped here):
> 
>   2008-07-29_00:15:37.28445 MODERATED POST
>   <9242m5x69p1.ln2@...>
>   gmane.network.leafnode,local.archive
> 
> no error indication.

There we go:

1. gmane.* groups are moderated for mailing list redirection

2. you're not the moderator, hence not setting the Approved: header

3. so leafnode has to post to exactly one upstream server, so that the
   moderator receives exactly one copy of the article (and not more)

4. leafnode cannot store the article locally in this case, because else
   it would show postings before moderator's approval, and might miss
   moderator's comments/notes/edits comments (because it'd reject the
   approved posting carring those with as dupes) - and articles without
   Approved: header do not belong into moderated newsgroups anyways
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clemens fischer | 1 Aug 2008 22:43
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Re: automatically x-post to local group?

On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 20:34:14 +0200 Matthias Andree wrote:

> There we go:
> 
> 1. gmane.* groups are moderated for mailing list redirection
> 
> 2. you're not the moderator, hence not setting the Approved: header
> 
> 3. so leafnode has to post to exactly one upstream server, so that the
>   moderator receives exactly one copy of the article (and not more)
> 
> 4. leafnode cannot store the article locally in this case, because else
>   it would show postings before moderator's approval, and might miss
>   moderator's comments/notes/edits comments (because it'd reject the
>   approved posting carring those with as dupes) - and articles without
>   Approved: header do not belong into moderated newsgroups anyways

ok, i understand.  hadn't thought of this connection.

could leafnode make an exception to this rule for _local_ newsgroups?
oh, well, i think i'd have to cook some scripting up, then ...

thanks for pointing this out to me.

regards, clemens
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Matthias Andree | 2 Aug 2008 09:54
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Re: automatically x-post to local group?

clemens fischer schrieb am 2008-08-01:

> On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 20:34:14 +0200 Matthias Andree wrote:
> 
> > There we go:
> > 
> > 1. gmane.* groups are moderated for mailing list redirection
> > 
> > 2. you're not the moderator, hence not setting the Approved: header
> > 
> > 3. so leafnode has to post to exactly one upstream server, so that the
> >   moderator receives exactly one copy of the article (and not more)
> > 
> > 4. leafnode cannot store the article locally in this case, because else
> >   it would show postings before moderator's approval, and might miss
> >   moderator's comments/notes/edits comments (because it'd reject the
> >   approved posting carring those with as dupes) - and articles without
> >   Approved: header do not belong into moderated newsgroups anyways
> 
> ok, i understand.  hadn't thought of this connection.
> 
> could leafnode make an exception to this rule for _local_ newsgroups?
> oh, well, i think i'd have to cook some scripting up, then ...

It'd then have to mark and later automatically supersede the local copy
when the official moderator article appears. Looks quite ugly to me.

--

-- 
Matthias Andree
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clemens fischer | 2 Aug 2008 18:28
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Re: automatically x-post to local group?

On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 09:54:36 +0200 Matthias Andree wrote:

> clemens fischer schrieb am 2008-08-01:
>
>> could leafnode make an exception to this rule for _local_ newsgroups?
>> oh, well, i think i'd have to cook some scripting up, then ...
>
> It'd then have to mark and later automatically supersede the local
> copy when the official moderator article appears. Looks quite ugly to
> me.

it is ugly when viewed from the standpoint of the USENET as a whole.
what i want to achieve is just a local copy of everything going out,
where this local copy would never hit the 'net.  i'd consider this
"local policy" with no bearing on anybody offsite.  plus:  people would
know that articles in local.archive may or may not have appeared some
place else, but they'd know these articles were sent off.  i would not
even _want_ superseeding to work.  "people", this is just me in this
context.

come on, you have predicates like "is_localgroup(group_name)", and
you're learned and far from simple, this can't be a technical problem.
8-)

regards, clemens
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Whiskers | 5 Aug 2008 12:41
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Re: automatically x-post to local group?

On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 18:28:49 +0200 "clemens fischer"
<ino-news@...>   wrote:

[...]

> what i want to achieve is just a local copy of everything going out,

[...]

The usual method of archiving 'sent articles' is to append them to an mbox 
file, which can be accessed using an email client or text tools.  Usenet 
clients such as slrn (and even I think Outlook Express) do that for 
individual users.

I have heard of people getting email messages 'ported' into a local
newsgroup (something I'd like to do with mailing lists) but I don't know
how to do that with Leafnode.

--

-- 
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
--  Whiskers 
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
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clemens fischer | 5 Aug 2008 22:54
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Re: automatically x-post to local group?

On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 11:41:14 +0100 Whiskers wrote:

> The usual method of archiving 'sent articles' is to append them to an
> mbox file, which can be accessed using an email client or text tools.
> Usenet clients such as slrn (and even I think Outlook Express) do that
> for individual users.

ok, unfortunately, tin[1] doesn't save articles, or, at least, i cannot
for the life of me find out, how.  the way described in the
documentation is either formulated wrong or i'm too stupid.

[1] tin.org

> I have heard of people getting email messages 'ported' into a local
> newsgroup (something I'd like to do with mailing lists) but I don't
> know how to do that with Leafnode.

to do this right would mean to do it like gmane.org does.  i read all
the mailinglists there, including leafnodes.

clemens
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Matthias Andree | 7 Aug 2008 10:31
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Re: automatically x-post to local group?

clemens fischer schrieb:
> On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 11:41:14 +0100 Whiskers wrote:
> 
>> The usual method of archiving 'sent articles' is to append them to an
>> mbox file, which can be accessed using an email client or text tools.
>> Usenet clients such as slrn (and even I think Outlook Express) do that
>> for individual users.
> 
> ok, unfortunately, tin[1] doesn't save articles, or, at least, i cannot
> for the life of me find out, how.  the way described in the
> documentation is either formulated wrong or i'm too stupid.

Tin's help menu is context-sensitive, i. e. if you're in the group view,
you don't get article-specific help. Try displaying an article and then
press the [s] key.

--

-- 
Matthias Andree
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clemens fischer | 7 Aug 2008 20:23
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Re: automatically x-post to local group?

On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 10:31:42 +0200 Matthias Andree wrote:

> Tin's help menu is context-sensitive, i. e. if you're in the group
> view, you don't get article-specific help. Try displaying an article
> and then press the [s] key.

i know, and i use it all the time.  but, like i said earlier,
i sometimes forget to save articles written by myself, and i end up with
incompletely saved threads.

-c
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Whiskers | 5 Aug 2008 23:39
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Re: automatically x-post to local group?

On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:54:16 +0200 "clemens fischer"
<ino-news@...>   wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 11:41:14 +0100 Whiskers wrote:
> 
> > The usual method of archiving 'sent articles' is to append them to an
> > mbox file, which can be accessed using an email client or text tools.
> > Usenet clients such as slrn (and even I think Outlook Express) do that
> > for individual users.
> 
> ok, unfortunately, tin[1] doesn't save articles, or, at least, i cannot
> for the life of me find out, how.  the way described in the
> documentation is either formulated wrong or i'm too stupid.
> 
> [1] tin.org

I'm not familiar with tin.  Perhaps a post to the newsgroup 
news.software.readers would get you some advice; just mention tin in the 
Subject: to get the attention of those who do know that program.

A simple bash (or whatever) script to append all the files in Leafnode's
out.going directory to an mbox file (in another directory) before running
fetchnews, would get the job done for all articles posted by all users of
your Leafnode.

> > I have heard of people getting email messages 'ported' into a local
> > newsgroup (something I'd like to do with mailing lists) but I don't
> > know how to do that with Leafnode.
> 
> to do this right would mean to do it like gmane.org does.  i read all
> the mailinglists there, including leafnodes.
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Matthias Andree | 5 Aug 2008 11:17
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Re: automatically x-post to local group?

clemens fischer <ino-news@...> writes:

> On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 09:54:36 +0200 Matthias Andree wrote:
>
>> clemens fischer schrieb am 2008-08-01:
>>
>>> could leafnode make an exception to this rule for _local_ newsgroups?
>>> oh, well, i think i'd have to cook some scripting up, then ...
>>
>> It'd then have to mark and later automatically supersede the local
>> copy when the official moderator article appears. Looks quite ugly to
>> me.
>
> it is ugly when viewed from the standpoint of the USENET as a whole.
> what i want to achieve is just a local copy of everything going out,
> where this local copy would never hit the 'net.  i'd consider this
> "local policy" with no bearing on anybody offsite.

Sure. But: I have to automatically supersede local article copies once
externals come in, without creating loopholes in dupe detection or
superseding articles that have another origin than this "local copy for
archival purposes".

> plus: people would know that articles in local.archive may or may not
> have appeared some place else, but they'd know these articles were
> sent off.  i would not even _want_ superseeding to work.  "people",
> this is just me in this context.

Hum *shrug*
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