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Richard Sharpe | 2 Aug 2012 06:10
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I hear that Fedora 18 will come with Samba 4

Hi folks,

Is anyone making sure that the transition from Samba 3 to Samba 4
after an upgrade works fine?

How about the knowledge transition from Samba 3 to Samba 4?

I ask because the transition from Fedora 14 to Fedora 16 was
horrendous. It has taken a while to get back to a comfortable
environment.

I would not like to see the transition to Samba 4 on F18 cause people
too much heartache.

--

-- 
Regards,
Richard Sharpe
(何以解憂？唯有杜康。--曹操)
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Andrew Bartlett | 2 Aug 2012 06:32
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Re: I hear that Fedora 18 will come with Samba 4

On Wed, 2012-08-01 at 21:10 -0700, Richard Sharpe wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> Is anyone making sure that the transition from Samba 3 to Samba 4
> after an upgrade works fine?

As Fedora isn't shipping the AD DC, their users really won't notice
much.  The extra client libraries have already been shipped for ages in
support of OpenChange.  

The same applies to the next debian release, which while it has a Samba4
AD DC included (at least for now), the primary purpose remains
OpenChange client support.  (Debian will only ships the ntvfs-based DC
in thier next release)

In both cases, the challenge for us will be to explain to our users why
the package in their distribution isn't the full Samba 4.0, and how to
replace it if they need an AD DC.

Users of the file server really won't notice much at all - while lots of
great work has gone on under the hood, the tdb databases used etc is
unchanged, as far as I'm aware. 

Andrew Bartlett

--

-- 
Andrew Bartlett                                http://samba.org/~abartlet/
Authentication Developer, Samba Team           http://samba.org
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Richard Sharpe | 2 Aug 2012 06:42
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Re: I hear that Fedora 18 will come with Samba 4

On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 9:32 PM, Andrew Bartlett <abartlet <at> samba.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 2012-08-01 at 21:10 -0700, Richard Sharpe wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> Is anyone making sure that the transition from Samba 3 to Samba 4
>> after an upgrade works fine?
>
> As Fedora isn't shipping the AD DC, their users really won't notice
> much.  The extra client libraries have already been shipped for ages in
> support of OpenChange.
>
> The same applies to the next debian release, which while it has a Samba4
> AD DC included (at least for now), the primary purpose remains
> OpenChange client support.  (Debian will only ships the ntvfs-based DC
> in thier next release)
>
> In both cases, the challenge for us will be to explain to our users why
> the package in their distribution isn't the full Samba 4.0, and how to
> replace it if they need an AD DC.
>
> Users of the file server really won't notice much at all - while lots of
> great work has gone on under the hood, the tdb databases used etc is
> unchanged, as far as I'm aware.

OK, this is good.

--

-- 
Regards,
Richard Sharpe
(何以解憂？唯有杜康。--曹操)
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Alexander Bokovoy | 2 Aug 2012 08:25
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Re: I hear that Fedora 18 will come with Samba 4

Hi,

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 7:32 AM, Andrew Bartlett <abartlet <at> samba.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 2012-08-01 at 21:10 -0700, Richard Sharpe wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> Is anyone making sure that the transition from Samba 3 to Samba 4
>> after an upgrade works fine?
>
> As Fedora isn't shipping the AD DC, their users really won't notice
> much.  The extra client libraries have already been shipped for ages in
> support of OpenChange.
>
> The same applies to the next debian release, which while it has a Samba4
> AD DC included (at least for now), the primary purpose remains
> OpenChange client support.  (Debian will only ships the ntvfs-based DC
> in thier next release)
>
> In both cases, the challenge for us will be to explain to our users why
> the package in their distribution isn't the full Samba 4.0, and how to
> replace it if they need an AD DC.
We have added some readme files to the packages that explain why and
how it is done. Andreas takes great deal to test that packages
actually build both with AD DC disabled and enabled in Fedora. So, one
could rebuild the package and get fully working Samba 4.0 AD DC with
embedded Heimdal version. However, that package will be incompatible
with certain other packages that use Samba libraries et al due to
Kerberos API drift. I'm thinking on adding some guards through the
generated names and versioning so that once you rebuild samba package
with AD DC functionality, it will supersede stock samba package in
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Andreas Schneider | 2 Aug 2012 08:29
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Re: I hear that Fedora 18 will come with Samba 4

On Wednesday 01 August 2012 21:10:23 Richard Sharpe wrote:
> Hi folks,

Hi Richard,

> Is anyone making sure that the transition from Samba 3 to Samba 4
> after an upgrade works fine?

Samba 4 AD DC functionality relies heavily on Heimdal Kerberos implementation. 
Samba 4 includes the embedded Heimdal, if your system misses it, like we have 
in Fedora. When embedded Heimdal is in use, all Samba 4 code is compiled 
against this Kerberos implementation, including client side libraries and 
tools, and traditional file serving smbd daemon we know as 'samba' package in 
Fedora.

Fedora uses MIT Kerberos implementation, both server and client side. Heimdal 
and MIT Kerberos are targetting to implement the same Kerberos V protocol but 
have their own extensions API and certain semantical differences. They also 
have slightly different meaning to Kerberos credential cache files format 
where Kerberos-aware applications store their Kerberos keys. While this is not 
an issue for client-server communication over a network (a Heimdal client does 
talk the same Kerberos V protocol that MIT Kerberos server understands and 
vice versa), interoperability of the client or server code using the same 
credential cache files on the same system is much less supported for advanced 
features like S4U2Proxy and S4U2Self.

It is generally not advisable to load two different API implementations into 
the same address space either. When the rest of the system libraries is 
compiled against MIT Kerberos, use of them within Samba 4 code brings in MIT 
Kerberos as well. This happens, for example, when linking against OpenLDAP
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