James Brown | 29 May 06:48 2013
Picon

Skype banned tor-nodes?

Hello, people!

Because many my contacts continue to use Skype and don't want to use any
nice soft (such as jabber, torchat and etc.) I need to use it too.
For protecting of my location and etc. I use it only through Tor (on VM
working under transparently-torifed user).
Some days ago I would be very, very difficalt to connect to skype
through the Tor-net (earlier it was very easy).
As can I see in my Vidalia, my skype application can make resolving
through tor and can connect to hosts through port 443, but conncetions
with port 33033 cannot establish (I can the the trying to open it and
after it it closed immediatly).
As can I see the skype doesn't work without that connections which now
establishes very rarely.
I have 2 versions:
a) the Skype team ban the Tor-connections to skype (but I can still
connect to skype to ports 443 and I can to browse their web-site and
even log in to it through the Tor without any problems)
or
b) many Tor-exits don't let the above-mentioned port (33033) in their
ExitPolicy.
It is not good from the Skype team if they do the first.
If the second  hypothesis is right I ask owners of Exit-nodes, if it
possible, to let that port in their ExitPolicies.
Mike Perry | 29 May 07:38 2013

Re: [tor-talk] Skype banned tor-nodes?

Cross-posting to tor-relays to give everyone the heads up - I just added
33033 to the ReducedExitPolicy page for Skype:
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/ReducedExitPolicy

Non-relay related discussion should remove tor-relays from the Cc.

James Brown:

> Hello, people!
> 
> Because many my contacts continue to use Skype and don't want to use any
> nice soft (such as jabber, torchat and etc.) I need to use it too.
> For protecting of my location and etc. I use it only through Tor (on VM
> working under transparently-torifed user).
> Some days ago I would be very, very difficalt to connect to skype
> through the Tor-net (earlier it was very easy).
> As can I see in my Vidalia, my skype application can make resolving
> through tor and can connect to hosts through port 443, but conncetions
> with port 33033 cannot establish (I can the the trying to open it and
> after it it closed immediatly).
> As can I see the skype doesn't work without that connections which now
> establishes very rarely.
> I have 2 versions:
> a) the Skype team ban the Tor-connections to skype (but I can still
> connect to skype to ports 443 and I can to browse their web-site and
> even log in to it through the Tor without any problems)
> or
> b) many Tor-exits don't let the above-mentioned port (33033) in their
> ExitPolicy.

(Continue reading)

Maimun Rizal | 29 May 10:11 2013

Number of tor users

Dear All,
I would like to know, where i can find data average number of tor users? As I know, number of users in
metrics.torproject.org are total number in a day. So how can I know a average?

Thank,
Regards
MR
Karsten Loesing | 29 May 11:53 2013

Re: Number of tor users

On 5/29/13 10:11 AM, Maimun Rizal wrote:
> I would like to know, where i can find data average number of tor
> users? As I know, number of users in metrics.torproject.org are total
> number in a day. So how can I know a average?

Hi Maimun,

this is a fine question.

Actually, what you find on metrics.torproject.org *is* the estimated
average number of Tor users per day, not the total number.

Here's how we calculate those numbers (simplified): we sum up daily
requests by Tor clients to the Tor directories to fetch the network
status document, assume that an average user makes 10 such requests per
day (some make just 1 or 2, others 15 or 20), divide the number of
requests by 10, and have our estimated average daily user number.

But we don't have data to say whether two requests were made by the same
client or two different clients, mostly because clients can send their
requests to hundreds of directories which cannot exchange data on
requesting clients for obvious privacy reasons.  That's why we cannot
calculate total users per day, just averages.

For more details, see these reports:

https://research.torproject.org/techreports/counting-daily-bridge-users-2012-10-24.pdf

https://research.torproject.org/techreports/countingusers-2010-11-30.pdf

(Continue reading)

Frederick Jakubowsi | 29 May 11:55 2013
Picon
Picon

Re: Number of tor users

OK, how do I use or even start TOR, it keeps saying cannot start Vidalia....?

________________________________
From: Karsten Loesing <karsten <at> torproject.org>
To: tor-talk <at> lists.torproject.org
Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 4:53:46 AM
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Number of tor users

On 5/29/13 10:11 AM, Maimun Rizal wrote:
> I would like to know, where i can find data average number of tor
> users? As I know, number of users in metrics.torproject.org are total
> number in a day. So how can I know a average?

Hi Maimun,

this is a fine question.

Actually, what you find on metrics.torproject.org *is* the estimated
average number of Tor users per day, not the total number.

Here's how we calculate those numbers (simplified): we sum up daily
requests by Tor clients to the Tor directories to fetch the network
status document, assume that an average user makes 10 such requests per
day (some make just 1 or 2, others 15 or 20), divide the number of
requests by 10, and have our estimated average daily user number.

But we don't have data to say whether two requests were made by the same
client or two different clients, mostly because clients can send their
requests to hundreds of directories which cannot exchange data on
requesting clients for obvious privacy reasons.  That's why we cannot
(Continue reading)

Karsten Loesing | 29 May 12:22 2013

Re: Number of tor users

On 5/29/13 11:55 AM, Frederick Jakubowsi wrote:
> OK, how do I use or even start TOR, it keeps saying cannot start Vidalia....?

Please don't hijack threads.

You can contact help <at> rt.torproject.org for support questions.

Thanks,
Karsten
Nathan Suchy | 29 May 13:47 2013
Picon

Re: Number of tor users

I agree you already took over one. Please stop...
On May 29, 2013 6:23 AM, "Karsten Loesing" <karsten <at> torproject.org> wrote:

> On 5/29/13 11:55 AM, Frederick Jakubowsi wrote:
> > OK, how do I use or even start TOR, it keeps saying cannot start
> Vidalia....?
>
> Please don't hijack threads.
>
> You can contact help <at> rt.torproject.org for support questions.
>
> Thanks,
> Karsten
>
> _______________________________________________
> tor-talk mailing list
> tor-talk <at> lists.torproject.org
> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
>
Maimun Rizal | 29 May 15:38 2013

Re: Number of tor users

Hi Karsten,
Thank you for fast reply.
So, now more clear for me to understand.
I try to calculate average Bandwidth per User based on Data from 
metrics.torproject.org and I got around 30-40 Kbps/user. but it is total 
bandwidth/average daily user. if I want to calculate end-to-end 
bandwidth, the result i divide 3. with assumption we have 3 relays to 
establish connection (Entry, middle and exit). each relays have equal 
bandwidth (only assumption, in the reality, total bandwidth for 3 relays 
are different). then, average bandwidth connection is 10 - 15 Kbps.
in VoIP case, we need 30-35 Kbps (iLBC and Speex codec) to have good 
quality calls.
then my next question, does TOR ensure the bandwidth for users? at least 
each user can get minimum bandwidth around 30 Kbps.
Thank you before,

Regards,
Maimun

On 29/05/2013 11:53, Karsten Loesing wrote:
> On 5/29/13 10:11 AM, Maimun Rizal wrote:
>> I would like to know, where i can find data average number of tor
>> users? As I know, number of users in metrics.torproject.org are total
>> number in a day. So how can I know a average?
> Hi Maimun,
>
> this is a fine question.
>
> Actually, what you find on metrics.torproject.org *is* the estimated
> average number of Tor users per day, not the total number.
(Continue reading)

Karsten Loesing | 29 May 16:42 2013

Re: Number of tor users

On 5/29/13 3:38 PM, Maimun Rizal wrote:
> Hi Karsten,
> Thank you for fast reply.
> So, now more clear for me to understand.
> I try to calculate average Bandwidth per User based on Data from
> metrics.torproject.org and I got around 30-40 Kbps/user. but it is total
> bandwidth/average daily user. if I want to calculate end-to-end
> bandwidth, the result i divide 3. with assumption we have 3 relays to
> establish connection (Entry, middle and exit). each relays have equal
> bandwidth (only assumption, in the reality, total bandwidth for 3 relays
> are different). then, average bandwidth connection is 10 - 15 Kbps.
> in VoIP case, we need 30-35 Kbps (iLBC and Speex codec) to have good
> quality calls.

Ah, in that case user statistics won't get you very far.  I suggest you
try out whether your VoIP application works with Tor or not.

You may also be interested in this FAQ:

https://www.torproject.org/docs/faq.html.en#TransportIPnotTCP

> then my next question, does TOR ensure the bandwidth for users? at least
> each user can get minimum bandwidth around 30 Kbps.

No, Tor doesn't ensure a minimum bandwidth per user.  Again, worth a try
if the provided bandwidth is sufficient or not.

Best,
Karsten
(Continue reading)

Maimun Rizal | 29 May 17:44 2013

Re: Number of tor users

I have test VoIP call through TOR, we have 54 % acceptable call for 5 % 
packet more than 400 ms. this result was for voip call with 2 tor relays.
but now, I do not how to explain, correlation between acceptable call 
and available tor bandwidth. because of that, I try to calculate 
bandwidth per user based on data from metrics.torproject.org but my 
professor said it does not make sense. So I need to make test end-to-end 
to get bandwidth network then measure average.

Regards,

On 29/05/2013 16:42, Karsten Loesing wrote:
> On 5/29/13 3:38 PM, Maimun Rizal wrote:
>> Hi Karsten,
>> Thank you for fast reply.
>> So, now more clear for me to understand.
>> I try to calculate average Bandwidth per User based on Data from
>> metrics.torproject.org and I got around 30-40 Kbps/user. but it is total
>> bandwidth/average daily user. if I want to calculate end-to-end
>> bandwidth, the result i divide 3. with assumption we have 3 relays to
>> establish connection (Entry, middle and exit). each relays have equal
>> bandwidth (only assumption, in the reality, total bandwidth for 3 relays
>> are different). then, average bandwidth connection is 10 - 15 Kbps.
>> in VoIP case, we need 30-35 Kbps (iLBC and Speex codec) to have good
>> quality calls.
> Ah, in that case user statistics won't get you very far.  I suggest you
> try out whether your VoIP application works with Tor or not.
>
> You may also be interested in this FAQ:
>
> https://www.torproject.org/docs/faq.html.en#TransportIPnotTCP
(Continue reading)

Nathan Suchy | 29 May 19:07 2013
Picon

Re: Number of tor users

Well that average is wrong. I get around 300kbps for my downloads...
On May 29, 2013 10:26 AM, "Maimun Rizal" <maimun.rizal <at> googlemail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Karsten,
> Thank you for fast reply.
> So, now more clear for me to understand.
> I try to calculate average Bandwidth per User based on Data from
> metrics.torproject.org and I got around 30-40 Kbps/user. but it is total
> bandwidth/average daily user. if I want to calculate end-to-end bandwidth,
> the result i divide 3. with assumption we have 3 relays to establish
> connection (Entry, middle and exit). each relays have equal bandwidth (only
> assumption, in the reality, total bandwidth for 3 relays are different).
> then, average bandwidth connection is 10 - 15 Kbps.
> in VoIP case, we need 30-35 Kbps (iLBC and Speex codec) to have good
> quality calls.
> then my next question, does TOR ensure the bandwidth for users? at least
> each user can get minimum bandwidth around 30 Kbps.
> Thank you before,
>
> Regards,
> Maimun
>
>
> On 29/05/2013 11:53, Karsten Loesing wrote:
>
>> On 5/29/13 10:11 AM, Maimun Rizal wrote:
>>
>>> I would like to know, where i can find data average number of tor
>>> users? As I know, number of users in metrics.torproject.org are total
(Continue reading)

James Brown | 30 May 09:01 2013
Picon

Re: Skype banned tor-nodes?

Mike Perry:
> Cross-posting to tor-relays to give everyone the heads up - I just added
> 33033 to the ReducedExitPolicy page for Skype:
> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/ReducedExitPolicy
> 
> Non-relay related discussion should remove tor-relays from the Cc.
> 

Very thanks.
As can I see through Vidalia and `netstat` on the stage of establishing
connections the skype-client connects with some hosts belonging
Microsoft and "Skype Technology" with ports 443, 12350, 33033
In the next time establishes connections with some other ports.
Always there was no problem to log in to skype through the Tor-net
(using transparently-torified scheme) but some days ago something was
broken.
I can log in to skype with some difficults but I cannot see status of my
contacts, chat with them and etc.
As can I see from Vidalia the Tor-client tries to open connection for
skype to port 33033 and cannot do it. Connections with 443 and 12350 are
established.
Sometimes it connects but after some minutes it disconnects.
I don't know whether the skype ban connections or the owners of
Tor-nodes in a one moment reject the port № 33033 but it looks like the
first not the second.
When I try to connect with skype through vpn (openvpn) after Tor-net it
works nice.
_______________________________________________
tor-talk mailing list
tor-talk <at> lists.torproject.org
(Continue reading)


Gmane