Ideas for boycotting Scrabble and Hasbro

Writes Nelson Pavlosky on our blog:

Do you feel that Hasbro's lawsuit against [Scrabulous][1] was rather
heavy-handed? Did you enjoy Scrabulous's revival of a 60-year-old game,
and do you resent Hasbro's [free-riding off of the innovators who made
Scrabulous][2]? Is it uncool that Hasbro used Scrabulous to make
Scrabble more popular, and then sued the Scrabulous developers once
Hasbro developed an official Facebook app?

Then perhaps it is time that you began boycotting Hasbro's Scrabble, in
all its forms. Why not:

  * **Refuse to use official Scrabble online games -** Let's face it,
they're [not as good as Scrabulous was][3], anyway. You can join the
Facebook group [We refuse to use official Scrabble app since Hasbro shut
down Scrabulous][4] or probably a dozen others like it.

  * **Continue playing Scrabulous anyway - **Hasbro does not own the
copyrights to Scrabble outside the USA and Canada, some other company
does. So, if you connect to Facebook from an IP address located outside
the US and Canada, then you can continue playing Scrabulous just like
the good old days. [This Facebook group][5] has easy instructions on how
to do so, by connecting to Facebook through a proxy server. A silver
lining to this lawsuit might be getting more people using the [Firefox
web browser][6] and the [FoxyProxy][7] add-on.

  * **Avoid buying products from Hasbro - **Do you really need a new
Scrabble board? Aren't there a gazillion Scrabble boards floating around
people's attics and garage sales that you could pick up for a song? Same
thing goes for other Hasbro games! Exercise your first sale rights and
(Continue reading)

Ringo Kamens | 1 Aug 05:24

Re: Ideas for boycotting Scrabble and Hasbro


FreeCulture.org - Students for Free Culture wrote:
> Writes Nelson Pavlosky on our blog:
> 
> Do you feel that Hasbro's lawsuit against [Scrabulous][1] was rather
> heavy-handed? Did you enjoy Scrabulous's revival of a 60-year-old game,
> and do you resent Hasbro's [free-riding off of the innovators who made
> Scrabulous][2]? Is it uncool that Hasbro used Scrabulous to make
> Scrabble more popular, and then sued the Scrabulous developers once
> Hasbro developed an official Facebook app?
> 
> Then perhaps it is time that you began boycotting Hasbro's Scrabble, in
> all its forms. Why not:
> 
>   * **Refuse to use official Scrabble online games -** Let's face it,
> they're [not as good as Scrabulous was][3], anyway. You can join the
> Facebook group [We refuse to use official Scrabble app since Hasbro shut
> down Scrabulous][4] or probably a dozen others like it.
> 
>   * **Continue playing Scrabulous anyway - **Hasbro does not own the
> copyrights to Scrabble outside the USA and Canada, some other company
> does. So, if you connect to Facebook from an IP address located outside
> the US and Canada, then you can continue playing Scrabulous just like
> the good old days. [This Facebook group][5] has easy instructions on how
> to do so, by connecting to Facebook through a proxy server. A silver
> lining to this lawsuit might be getting more people using the [Firefox
> web browser][6] and the [FoxyProxy][7] add-on.
> 
>   * **Avoid buying products from Hasbro - **Do you really need a new
> Scrabble board? Aren't there a gazillion Scrabble boards floating around
(Continue reading)

Re: Ideas for boycotting Scrabble and Hasbro

IIRC, Hasbro did offer the maker of Scabulous ten million dollars for  
the rights to their work, even when the estimated worth wasn't half  
that.  The word is that the creators were holding out for even more  
money.  Which is kind of reminiscent of the dot-com bubble of the  
nineties.

To play devil's advocate, how much should it be considered acceptable  
for a company to try to reach out before they can exercise their  
proprietary over their products?  Yes, I know you would say that  
ideally they wouldn't, but reasonably.

To note, I loved Scrabulous while I was on Facebook and am sad it's  
gone and think it was a bad move on Hasbro's part.  However, there  
legal action will not stop me from taking up someone on a game of  
Scrabble IRL.  That's silly - if the board already exists, it does not  
hurt the company at all if you are using it for something different,  
nor do they get any financial value of you playing a different game  
with the same board.  IMO, What's so good about the official version  
of Scrabble is the the same thing that's good with all mainstream  
board games.  The rules already exist so they can't be argued upon,  
and many people already know how to play it.  And if they learn the  
official rules, it's easy enough to play with anyone else who is  
familiar with scrabble.  It's a networking advantage; cultural  
capital, if you will.

As for homemade tiles: opaque glass mosaic stones and a sharpie make  
for an fun variation.  The tiles don't have to be square.  Or you  
could defile the national currency and take the sharpie to pennies.

Herbert.
(Continue reading)

Elizabeth Stark | 1 Aug 18:52

Re: Ideas for boycotting Scrabble and Hasbro

Herbert, do you have a source for that? I'd find it hard to believe that they'd reject such an offer, especially since Hasbro has a pretty strong copyright and trademark case against them.

And Nelson, just to play devil's advocate here, isn't this just a clear case of infringement of the Hasbro's copyright (and the Scrabble trademark for that matter)? Should Hasbro not hold the copyright to scrabble? What is the scenario we'd like to see? Should board games not be copyrightable matter? Should naming a game with such a similar name not be trademark infringement?

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 11:52 PM, Samantha (Herbert) Tanzer <herbertanzer <at> gmail.com> wrote:
IIRC, Hasbro did offer the maker of Scabulous ten million dollars for
the rights to their work, even when the estimated worth wasn't half
that.  The word is that the creators were holding out for even more
money.  Which is kind of reminiscent of the dot-com bubble of the
nineties.

To play devil's advocate, how much should it be considered acceptable
for a company to try to reach out before they can exercise their
proprietary over their products?  Yes, I know you would say that
ideally they wouldn't, but reasonably.

To note, I loved Scrabulous while I was on Facebook and am sad it's
gone and think it was a bad move on Hasbro's part.  However, there
legal action will not stop me from taking up someone on a game of
Scrabble IRL.  That's silly - if the board already exists, it does not
hurt the company at all if you are using it for something different,
nor do they get any financial value of you playing a different game
with the same board.  IMO, What's so good about the official version
of Scrabble is the the same thing that's good with all mainstream
board games.  The rules already exist so they can't be argued upon,
and many people already know how to play it.  And if they learn the
official rules, it's easy enough to play with anyone else who is
familiar with scrabble.  It's a networking advantage; cultural
capital, if you will.

As for homemade tiles: opaque glass mosaic stones and a sharpie make
for an fun variation.  The tiles don't have to be square.  Or you
could defile the national currency and take the sharpie to pennies.

Herbert.

On Jul 31, 2008, at 11:24 PM, Ringo Kamens wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> FreeCulture.org - Students for Free Culture wrote:
>> Writes Nelson Pavlosky on our blog:
>>
>> Do you feel that Hasbro's lawsuit against [Scrabulous][1] was rather
>> heavy-handed? Did you enjoy Scrabulous's revival of a 60-year-old
>> game,
>> and do you resent Hasbro's [free-riding off of the innovators who
>> made
>> Scrabulous][2]? Is it uncool that Hasbro used Scrabulous to make
>> Scrabble more popular, and then sued the Scrabulous developers once
>> Hasbro developed an official Facebook app?
>>
>> Then perhaps it is time that you began boycotting Hasbro's
>> Scrabble, in
>> all its forms. Why not:
>>
>>  * **Refuse to use official Scrabble online games -** Let's face it,
>> they're [not as good as Scrabulous was][3], anyway. You can join the
>> Facebook group [We refuse to use official Scrabble app since Hasbro
>> shut
>> down Scrabulous][4] or probably a dozen others like it.
>>
>>  * **Continue playing Scrabulous anyway - **Hasbro does not own the
>> copyrights to Scrabble outside the USA and Canada, some other company
>> does. So, if you connect to Facebook from an IP address located
>> outside
>> the US and Canada, then you can continue playing Scrabulous just like
>> the good old days. [This Facebook group][5] has easy instructions
>> on how
>> to do so, by connecting to Facebook through a proxy server. A silver
>> lining to this lawsuit might be getting more people using the
>> [Firefox
>> web browser][6] and the [FoxyProxy][7] add-on.
>>
>>  * **Avoid buying products from Hasbro - **Do you really need a new
>> Scrabble board? Aren't there a gazillion Scrabble boards floating
>> around
>> people's attics and garage sales that you could pick up for a song?
>> Same
>> thing goes for other Hasbro games! Exercise your first sale rights
>> and
>> buy used games instead.
>>
>>  * **If you have a Scrabble board, don't play Scrabble on it, play a
>> different word game -** What's so good about the exact copyrighted
>> version of Scrabble anyway? The Scrabulous developers realized this
>> and
>> [released the more flexible Wordscraper][8], a Scrabble-esque game
>> that
>> lets you change the board/rules. If you have a physical Scrabble
>> board,
>> there are innumerable word games you could play with it. You could
>> use
>> the tiles to play [Anagrams][9], a lovely fast-paced party game that
>> predates Scrabble, or perhaps even [Bananagrams][10]. Or, create your
>> own entirely new word game, and go down in history as the inventor of
>> something even better than Scrabble!
>>
>>  * **Make your own Scrabble-esque boards -** Why buy it when you can
>> make it yourself? The tiles might be a bit tricky (although a
>> [RepRap 3d
>> printer][11] would probably make short work of it once it's generally
>> available to the public) but it should be child's play to draw a grid
>> and fill in the boxes with double word scores or more interesting
>> variations.
>>
>> Honestly, Hasbro's rent-seeking with the Scrabble copyright is a
>> really
>> annoying example of how copyright can hinder creativity rather than
>> encouraging it. Scrabble was invented in 1938, and sold by the
>> creator
>> in 1948 to someone who could commercialize it (not Hasbro, Hasbro
>> bought
>> the copyright much later around 1986). How much real innovation has
>> been
>> done since then with Scrabble by people who benefit from the
>> copyright
>> royalties? Isn't it telling that the innovators here innovated
>> without
>> benefiting from copyright controls or copyright royalties? This is a
>> clear case of copyright outlasting its usefulness. Perhaps more
>> importantly, I think it's rotten that Hasbro is shutting down
>> Scrabulous
>> for bringing Scrabble to life again for a new generation… that's
>> not a
>> proper reward. I'd love to send a message to Hasbro that their
>> behavior
>> is really uncool. Just because Hasbro has the legal power to shut
>> down
>> Scrabulous doesn't mean it's the right thing to do, either for their
>> bottom line (see [the Economist's cautious endorsement of piracy]
>> [12])
>> or for creativity in the field of gaming.
>>
>>   [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrabulous
>>
>>   [2]: http://freedomforip.org/2008/07/31/hasbro-v-scrabulous-tm-in-a
>> -user-generated-world/
>>
>>   [3]:
>> http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/07/29/1455219&tid=202
>>
>>   [4]: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25544341610&ref=nf
>>
>>   [5]: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=22388656294&ref=nf
>>
>>   [6]: http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/
>>
>>   [7]: http://foxyproxy.mozdev.org/
>>
>>   [8]: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080731-scrabulous-goes-
>> for-bonus-points-relaunches-as-wordscraper.html
>>
>>   [9]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anagrams
>>
>>   [10]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bananagrams
>>
>>   [11]: http://reprap.org/
>>
>>   [12]:
>> http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11750492
>>
>> URL: http://freeculture.org/blog/2008/07/31/ideas-for-boycotting-scrabble-and-hasbro/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> Cool ideas, I'm certainly never using the official version anymore. I
> with the developers would release the source code so we could to a
> mass
> civil disobedience : (
> CRK
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> w3TKmVyCnIlIT6Pgs9VlbfI=
> =EKU3
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss

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Nelson Pavlosky | 1 Aug 19:04

Re: Ideas for boycotting Scrabble and Hasbro

Elizabeth Stark wrote:
>
> And Nelson, just to play devil's advocate here, isn't this just a clear
case
> of infringement of the Hasbro's copyright (and the Scrabble trademark for
> that matter)? Should Hasbro not hold the copyright to scrabble? What is the
> scenario we'd like to see? Should board games not be copyrightable matter?
> Should naming a game with such a similar name not be trademark
infringement?

Well, ideally copyright would be shorter so that a game created in 1938
would be public domain by now.

Failing that, I think we should put pressure on companies not to enforce
their copyrights to the hilt.  Just because you have the legal power to
do something doesn't make it the right thing to do, either for your
business or for the public good.  Working with "pirates" in a civil
manner instead of trying to sue them out of existence might have given
us a healthy online music business back when Napster was created instead
of like a decade later with iTunes, Amazon etc.   A legitimized Napster
I think would have been a seriously good thing.  Similarly, working with
Scrabulous might have been more productive than suing them.  As the
Economist article I linked to suggests, perhaps companies should
consider more seriously whether the "piracy" is actually a bad thing
before sending in the lawyers.

We have carrots and sticks, folks.  We can boycott companies that don't
play nicely with others, and we can do things like CarrotMob
<http://www.carrotmob.org/> to benefit businesses that are friendly to
their fans and customers instead of suing them.  Let's encourage people
and companies to share more and to hoard less, because generally in the
information economy, it's not a zero sum game, when you share frequently
everybody wins.

Peace,
~Nelson~
Oliver Day | 1 Aug 19:19

Re: Ideas for boycotting Scrabble and Hasbro

What about the trademark issues though?  I forget what the extent of 
trademark allows but I was under the impression it is protected for as 
long as the product is on the market.  And as much as I love Scrabulous I 
can't help but notice that the colors, layout, etc of the board are a 
nearly exact match.

O

On Fri, 1 Aug 2008, Nelson Pavlosky wrote:

> Elizabeth Stark wrote:
>>
>> And Nelson, just to play devil's advocate here, isn't this just a clear
> case
>> of infringement of the Hasbro's copyright (and the Scrabble trademark for
>> that matter)? Should Hasbro not hold the copyright to scrabble? What is the
>> scenario we'd like to see? Should board games not be copyrightable matter?
>> Should naming a game with such a similar name not be trademark
> infringement?
>
> Well, ideally copyright would be shorter so that a game created in 1938
> would be public domain by now.
>
> Failing that, I think we should put pressure on companies not to enforce
> their copyrights to the hilt.  Just because you have the legal power to
> do something doesn't make it the right thing to do, either for your
> business or for the public good.  Working with "pirates" in a civil
> manner instead of trying to sue them out of existence might have given
> us a healthy online music business back when Napster was created instead
> of like a decade later with iTunes, Amazon etc.   A legitimized Napster
> I think would have been a seriously good thing.  Similarly, working with
> Scrabulous might have been more productive than suing them.  As the
> Economist article I linked to suggests, perhaps companies should
> consider more seriously whether the "piracy" is actually a bad thing
> before sending in the lawyers.
>
> We have carrots and sticks, folks.  We can boycott companies that don't
> play nicely with others, and we can do things like CarrotMob
> <http://www.carrotmob.org/> to benefit businesses that are friendly to
> their fans and customers instead of suing them.  Let's encourage people
> and companies to share more and to hoard less, because generally in the
> information economy, it's not a zero sum game, when you share frequently
> everybody wins.
>
> Peace,
> ~Nelson~
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
Kevin Driscoll | 1 Aug 20:37

Re: Ideas for boycotting Scrabble and Hasbro

Those dudes are b.a.n.a.n.a.s. for not taking $10millie if it were
indeed offered but I am not sure about the infringement here. There's
definitely trademark confusion (check out the board, dogs!) but game
rules aren't copyright protected. I believe they fall under patent.

I am consulting with some of my gamer colleagues in GAMBIT to find out.

I used to play Literati all the time on Yahoo games. It was very
similar to Scrabble... but perhaps not similar enough? Or maybe it was
2002 and Hasbro wasn't yet hip 2 da scene?

Kevin

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Oliver Day <oday <at> fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
> What about the trademark issues though?  I forget what the extent of
> trademark allows but I was under the impression it is protected for as
> long as the product is on the market.  And as much as I love Scrabulous I
> can't help but notice that the colors, layout, etc of the board are a
> nearly exact match.
>
> O
>
> On Fri, 1 Aug 2008, Nelson Pavlosky wrote:
>
>> Elizabeth Stark wrote:
>>>
>>> And Nelson, just to play devil's advocate here, isn't this just a clear
>> case
>>> of infringement of the Hasbro's copyright (and the Scrabble trademark for
>>> that matter)? Should Hasbro not hold the copyright to scrabble? What is the
>>> scenario we'd like to see? Should board games not be copyrightable matter?
>>> Should naming a game with such a similar name not be trademark
>> infringement?
>>
>> Well, ideally copyright would be shorter so that a game created in 1938
>> would be public domain by now.
>>
>> Failing that, I think we should put pressure on companies not to enforce
>> their copyrights to the hilt.  Just because you have the legal power to
>> do something doesn't make it the right thing to do, either for your
>> business or for the public good.  Working with "pirates" in a civil
>> manner instead of trying to sue them out of existence might have given
>> us a healthy online music business back when Napster was created instead
>> of like a decade later with iTunes, Amazon etc.   A legitimized Napster
>> I think would have been a seriously good thing.  Similarly, working with
>> Scrabulous might have been more productive than suing them.  As the
>> Economist article I linked to suggests, perhaps companies should
>> consider more seriously whether the "piracy" is actually a bad thing
>> before sending in the lawyers.
>>
>> We have carrots and sticks, folks.  We can boycott companies that don't
>> play nicely with others, and we can do things like CarrotMob
>> <http://www.carrotmob.org/> to benefit businesses that are friendly to
>> their fans and customers instead of suing them.  Let's encourage people
>> and companies to share more and to hoard less, because generally in the
>> information economy, it's not a zero sum game, when you share frequently
>> everybody wins.
>>
>> Peace,
>> ~Nelson~
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>

--

-- 
)_)_)_)_)_)_
Elizabeth Stark | 1 Aug 20:42

Re: Ideas for boycotting Scrabble and Hasbro

The design of the board is copyrightable.

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 2:37 PM, Kevin Driscoll <driscollkevin <at> gmail.com> wrote:
Those dudes are b.a.n.a.n.a.s. for not taking $10millie if it were
indeed offered but I am not sure about the infringement here. There's
definitely trademark confusion (check out the board, dogs!) but game
rules aren't copyright protected. I believe they fall under patent.

I am consulting with some of my gamer colleagues in GAMBIT to find out.

I used to play Literati all the time on Yahoo games. It was very
similar to Scrabble... but perhaps not similar enough? Or maybe it was
2002 and Hasbro wasn't yet hip 2 da scene?

Kevin





On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Oliver Day <oday <at> fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
> What about the trademark issues though?  I forget what the extent of
> trademark allows but I was under the impression it is protected for as
> long as the product is on the market.  And as much as I love Scrabulous I
> can't help but notice that the colors, layout, etc of the board are a
> nearly exact match.
>
> O
>
> On Fri, 1 Aug 2008, Nelson Pavlosky wrote:
>
>> Elizabeth Stark wrote:
>>>
>>> And Nelson, just to play devil's advocate here, isn't this just a clear
>> case
>>> of infringement of the Hasbro's copyright (and the Scrabble trademark for
>>> that matter)? Should Hasbro not hold the copyright to scrabble? What is the
>>> scenario we'd like to see? Should board games not be copyrightable matter?
>>> Should naming a game with such a similar name not be trademark
>> infringement?
>>
>> Well, ideally copyright would be shorter so that a game created in 1938
>> would be public domain by now.
>>
>> Failing that, I think we should put pressure on companies not to enforce
>> their copyrights to the hilt.  Just because you have the legal power to
>> do something doesn't make it the right thing to do, either for your
>> business or for the public good.  Working with "pirates" in a civil
>> manner instead of trying to sue them out of existence might have given
>> us a healthy online music business back when Napster was created instead
>> of like a decade later with iTunes, Amazon etc.   A legitimized Napster
>> I think would have been a seriously good thing.  Similarly, working with
>> Scrabulous might have been more productive than suing them.  As the
>> Economist article I linked to suggests, perhaps companies should
>> consider more seriously whether the "piracy" is actually a bad thing
>> before sending in the lawyers.
>>
>> We have carrots and sticks, folks.  We can boycott companies that don't
>> play nicely with others, and we can do things like CarrotMob
>> <http://www.carrotmob.org/> to benefit businesses that are friendly to
>> their fans and customers instead of suing them.  Let's encourage people
>> and companies to share more and to hoard less, because generally in the
>> information economy, it's not a zero sum game, when you share frequently
>> everybody wins.
>>
>> Peace,
>> ~Nelson~
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



--
)_)_)_)_)_)_
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http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss

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Discuss <at> freeculture.org
http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Kevin Driscoll | 1 Aug 20:49

Re: Ideas for boycotting Scrabble and Hasbro

The printing and design is protected by copyright but the concept of a
gridded gameboard upon which one places lettered tiles seems not.

IANALAIDW2B1BIATH

Kevin

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 2:42 PM, Elizabeth Stark <emstark <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> The design of the board is copyrightable.
>
> On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 2:37 PM, Kevin Driscoll <driscollkevin <at> gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Those dudes are b.a.n.a.n.a.s. for not taking $10millie if it were
>> indeed offered but I am not sure about the infringement here. There's
>> definitely trademark confusion (check out the board, dogs!) but game
>> rules aren't copyright protected. I believe they fall under patent.
>>
>> I am consulting with some of my gamer colleagues in GAMBIT to find out.
>>
>> I used to play Literati all the time on Yahoo games. It was very
>> similar to Scrabble... but perhaps not similar enough? Or maybe it was
>> 2002 and Hasbro wasn't yet hip 2 da scene?
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Oliver Day <oday <at> fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
>> > What about the trademark issues though?  I forget what the extent of
>> > trademark allows but I was under the impression it is protected for as
>> > long as the product is on the market.  And as much as I love Scrabulous
>> > I
>> > can't help but notice that the colors, layout, etc of the board are a
>> > nearly exact match.
>> >
>> > O
>> >
>> > On Fri, 1 Aug 2008, Nelson Pavlosky wrote:
>> >
>> >> Elizabeth Stark wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> And Nelson, just to play devil's advocate here, isn't this just a
>> >>> clear
>> >> case
>> >>> of infringement of the Hasbro's copyright (and the Scrabble trademark
>> >>> for
>> >>> that matter)? Should Hasbro not hold the copyright to scrabble? What
>> >>> is the
>> >>> scenario we'd like to see? Should board games not be copyrightable
>> >>> matter?
>> >>> Should naming a game with such a similar name not be trademark
>> >> infringement?
>> >>
>> >> Well, ideally copyright would be shorter so that a game created in 1938
>> >> would be public domain by now.
>> >>
>> >> Failing that, I think we should put pressure on companies not to
>> >> enforce
>> >> their copyrights to the hilt.  Just because you have the legal power to
>> >> do something doesn't make it the right thing to do, either for your
>> >> business or for the public good.  Working with "pirates" in a civil
>> >> manner instead of trying to sue them out of existence might have given
>> >> us a healthy online music business back when Napster was created
>> >> instead
>> >> of like a decade later with iTunes, Amazon etc.   A legitimized Napster
>> >> I think would have been a seriously good thing.  Similarly, working
>> >> with
>> >> Scrabulous might have been more productive than suing them.  As the
>> >> Economist article I linked to suggests, perhaps companies should
>> >> consider more seriously whether the "piracy" is actually a bad thing
>> >> before sending in the lawyers.
>> >>
>> >> We have carrots and sticks, folks.  We can boycott companies that don't
>> >> play nicely with others, and we can do things like CarrotMob
>> >> <http://www.carrotmob.org/> to benefit businesses that are friendly to
>> >> their fans and customers instead of suing them.  Let's encourage people
>> >> and companies to share more and to hoard less, because generally in the
>> >> information economy, it's not a zero sum game, when you share
>> >> frequently
>> >> everybody wins.
>> >>
>> >> Peace,
>> >> ~Nelson~
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Discuss mailing list
>> >> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>> >> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Discuss mailing list
>> > Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>> > http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> )_)_)_)_)_)_
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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)_)_)_)_)_)_
Nelson Pavlosky | 1 Aug 20:56

Re: Ideas for boycotting Scrabble and Hasbro

OK, I'll bite... what does the acronym stand for?

I Am Not A Lawyer And I Don't Want To Be One .... you lose me after
that.  I though it was "biatch", but you're missing a C ;-)

~Nelson~

Kevin Driscoll wrote:
> The printing and design is protected by copyright but the concept of a
> gridded gameboard upon which one places lettered tiles seems not.
>
> IANALAIDW2B1BIATH
>
>
> Kevin
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 2:42 PM, Elizabeth Stark <emstark <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> The design of the board is copyrightable.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 2:37 PM, Kevin Driscoll <driscollkevin <at> gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>     
>>> Those dudes are b.a.n.a.n.a.s. for not taking $10millie if it were
>>> indeed offered but I am not sure about the infringement here. There's
>>> definitely trademark confusion (check out the board, dogs!) but game
>>> rules aren't copyright protected. I believe they fall under patent.
>>>
>>> I am consulting with some of my gamer colleagues in GAMBIT to find out.
>>>
>>> I used to play Literati all the time on Yahoo games. It was very
>>> similar to Scrabble... but perhaps not similar enough? Or maybe it was
>>> 2002 and Hasbro wasn't yet hip 2 da scene?
>>>
>>> Kevin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Oliver Day <oday <at> fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
>>>       
>>>> What about the trademark issues though?  I forget what the extent of
>>>> trademark allows but I was under the impression it is protected for as
>>>> long as the product is on the market.  And as much as I love Scrabulous
>>>> I
>>>> can't help but notice that the colors, layout, etc of the board are a
>>>> nearly exact match.
>>>>
>>>> O
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 1 Aug 2008, Nelson Pavlosky wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> Elizabeth Stark wrote:
>>>>>           
>>>>>> And Nelson, just to play devil's advocate here, isn't this just a
>>>>>> clear
>>>>>>             
>>>>> case
>>>>>           
>>>>>> of infringement of the Hasbro's copyright (and the Scrabble trademark
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> that matter)? Should Hasbro not hold the copyright to scrabble? What
>>>>>> is the
>>>>>> scenario we'd like to see? Should board games not be copyrightable
>>>>>> matter?
>>>>>> Should naming a game with such a similar name not be trademark
>>>>>>             
>>>>> infringement?
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, ideally copyright would be shorter so that a game created in 1938
>>>>> would be public domain by now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Failing that, I think we should put pressure on companies not to
>>>>> enforce
>>>>> their copyrights to the hilt.  Just because you have the legal power to
>>>>> do something doesn't make it the right thing to do, either for your
>>>>> business or for the public good.  Working with "pirates" in a civil
>>>>> manner instead of trying to sue them out of existence might have given
>>>>> us a healthy online music business back when Napster was created
>>>>> instead
>>>>> of like a decade later with iTunes, Amazon etc.   A legitimized Napster
>>>>> I think would have been a seriously good thing.  Similarly, working
>>>>> with
>>>>> Scrabulous might have been more productive than suing them.  As the
>>>>> Economist article I linked to suggests, perhaps companies should
>>>>> consider more seriously whether the "piracy" is actually a bad thing
>>>>> before sending in the lawyers.
>>>>>
>>>>> We have carrots and sticks, folks.  We can boycott companies that don't
>>>>> play nicely with others, and we can do things like CarrotMob
>>>>> <http://www.carrotmob.org/> to benefit businesses that are friendly to
>>>>> their fans and customers instead of suing them.  Let's encourage people
>>>>> and companies to share more and to hoard less, because generally in the
>>>>> information economy, it's not a zero sum game, when you share
>>>>> frequently
>>>>> everybody wins.
>>>>>
>>>>> Peace,
>>>>> ~Nelson~
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>>>>> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>>>> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>
>>> --
>>> )_)_)_)_)_)_
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>>> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
>>     
>
>
>
>   
Matt Lee | 1 Aug 21:39

Re: Ideas for boycotting Scrabble and Hasbro

All these games require Flash anyway, right?

A very simple way to boycott them would simply be to remove Flash and
refuse to play them.

People unwilling or unable to remove Flash could block Flash from
Facebook using the NOSCRIPT plugin.

Re: Ideas for boycotting Scrabble and Hasbro

Mattl++

~Conley

Matt Lee wrote:
> All these games require Flash anyway, right?
> 
> A very simple way to boycott them would simply be to remove Flash and
> refuse to play them.
> 
> People unwilling or unable to remove Flash could block Flash from
> Facebook using the NOSCRIPT plugin.
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> 

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Fred Benenson | 2 Aug 03:49

Re: Ideas for boycotting Scrabble and Hasbro

I think the point would be to boycott Hasbro's version of the Scrabulous game, and probably use the Wordscraper one, which still requires flash. So disabling flash would throw the baby out with the bath water.

A more effective technique for showing Hasbro that you don't like their behavior would be to encourage people to "uninstall" the application from their facebook profile.

F


On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 5:17 AM, Clifford Conley Owens III <ccowens <at> vt.edu> wrote:
Mattl++

~Conley

Matt Lee wrote:
> All these games require Flash anyway, right?
>
> A very simple way to boycott them would simply be to remove Flash and
> refuse to play them.
>
> People unwilling or unable to remove Flash could block Flash from
> Facebook using the NOSCRIPT plugin.
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>

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Matt Lee | 2 Aug 04:21

Re: Ideas for boycotting Scrabble and Hasbro

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Fred Benenson <fred.benenson <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> I think the point would be to boycott Hasbro's version of the Scrabulous
> game, and probably use the Wordscraper one, which still requires flash. So
> disabling flash would throw the baby out with the bath water.
>
> A more effective technique for showing Hasbro that you don't like their
> behavior would be to encourage people to "uninstall" the application from
> their facebook profile.

John brought it to my attention that neither of these applications
work with free software.

Therefore, they should both be boycotted.
Rob Myers | 1 Aug 19:38

Re: Ideas for boycotting Scrabble and Hasbro

Nelson Pavlosky wrote:

> Well, ideally copyright would be shorter so that a game created in 1938
> would be public domain by now.

You can't copyright the rules, only the expression IIRC. But the visual
design could be both copyrighted and trademarked.

> Failing that, I think we should put pressure on companies not to enforce
> their copyrights to the hilt.  Just because you have the legal power to
> do something doesn't make it the right thing to do, either for your
> business or for the public good.  

Yes.

> Working with "pirates" in a civil
> manner instead of trying to sue them out of existence might have given
> us a healthy online music business back when Napster was created instead
> of like a decade later with iTunes, Amazon etc.   A legitimized Napster
> I think would have been a seriously good thing.  

Cory Doctorow wrote about this recently:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/jul/29/internet.digitalmusic

> Similarly, working with
> Scrabulous might have been more productive than suing them.

It would reduce development costs and time to market over setting up a
rival in-house effort. ;-)

- Rob.

Re: Ideas for boycotting Scrabble and Hasbro

Does this change anything?  I saw it yesterday morning, but I didn't 
think to post it until I read this thread:

Scrabulous Comes Back to Facebook as Wordscraper:
http://freeculturenews.com/2008/08/01/scrabulous-comes-back-to-facebook-as-wordscraper/

~Conley

Ringo Kamens wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> FreeCulture.org - Students for Free Culture wrote:
>   
>> Writes Nelson Pavlosky on our blog:
>>
>> Do you feel that Hasbro's lawsuit against [Scrabulous][1] was rather
>> heavy-handed? Did you enjoy Scrabulous's revival of a 60-year-old game,
>> and do you resent Hasbro's [free-riding off of the innovators who made
>> Scrabulous][2]? Is it uncool that Hasbro used Scrabulous to make
>> Scrabble more popular, and then sued the Scrabulous developers once
>> Hasbro developed an official Facebook app?
>>
>> Then perhaps it is time that you began boycotting Hasbro's Scrabble, in
>> all its forms. Why not:
>>
>>   * **Refuse to use official Scrabble online games -** Let's face it,
>> they're [not as good as Scrabulous was][3], anyway. You can join the
>> Facebook group [We refuse to use official Scrabble app since Hasbro shut
>> down Scrabulous][4] or probably a dozen others like it.
>>
>>   * **Continue playing Scrabulous anyway - **Hasbro does not own the
>> copyrights to Scrabble outside the USA and Canada, some other company
>> does. So, if you connect to Facebook from an IP address located outside
>> the US and Canada, then you can continue playing Scrabulous just like
>> the good old days. [This Facebook group][5] has easy instructions on how
>> to do so, by connecting to Facebook through a proxy server. A silver
>> lining to this lawsuit might be getting more people using the [Firefox
>> web browser][6] and the [FoxyProxy][7] add-on.
>>
>>   * **Avoid buying products from Hasbro - **Do you really need a new
>> Scrabble board? Aren't there a gazillion Scrabble boards floating around
>> people's attics and garage sales that you could pick up for a song? Same
>> thing goes for other Hasbro games! Exercise your first sale rights and
>> buy used games instead.
>>
>>   * **If you have a Scrabble board, don't play Scrabble on it, play a
>> different word game -** What's so good about the exact copyrighted
>> version of Scrabble anyway? The Scrabulous developers realized this and
>> [released the more flexible Wordscraper][8], a Scrabble-esque game that
>> lets you change the board/rules. If you have a physical Scrabble board,
>> there are innumerable word games you could play with it. You could use
>> the tiles to play [Anagrams][9], a lovely fast-paced party game that
>> predates Scrabble, or perhaps even [Bananagrams][10]. Or, create your
>> own entirely new word game, and go down in history as the inventor of
>> something even better than Scrabble!
>>
>>   * **Make your own Scrabble-esque boards -** Why buy it when you can
>> make it yourself? The tiles might be a bit tricky (although a [RepRap 3d
>> printer][11] would probably make short work of it once it's generally
>> available to the public) but it should be child's play to draw a grid
>> and fill in the boxes with double word scores or more interesting
>> variations.
>>
>> Honestly, Hasbro's rent-seeking with the Scrabble copyright is a really
>> annoying example of how copyright can hinder creativity rather than
>> encouraging it. Scrabble was invented in 1938, and sold by the creator
>> in 1948 to someone who could commercialize it (not Hasbro, Hasbro bought
>> the copyright much later around 1986). How much real innovation has been
>> done since then with Scrabble by people who benefit from the copyright
>> royalties? Isn't it telling that the innovators here innovated without
>> benefiting from copyright controls or copyright royalties? This is a
>> clear case of copyright outlasting its usefulness. Perhaps more
>> importantly, I think it's rotten that Hasbro is shutting down Scrabulous
>> for bringing Scrabble to life again for a new generation… that's not a
>> proper reward. I'd love to send a message to Hasbro that their behavior
>> is really uncool. Just because Hasbro has the legal power to shut down
>> Scrabulous doesn't mean it's the right thing to do, either for their
>> bottom line (see [the Economist's cautious endorsement of piracy][12])
>> or for creativity in the field of gaming.
>>
>>    [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrabulous
>>
>>    [2]: http://freedomforip.org/2008/07/31/hasbro-v-scrabulous-tm-in-a
>> -user-generated-world/
>>
>>    [3]:
>> http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/07/29/1455219&tid=202
>>
>>    [4]: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25544341610&ref=nf
>>
>>    [5]: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=22388656294&ref=nf
>>
>>    [6]: http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/
>>
>>    [7]: http://foxyproxy.mozdev.org/
>>
>>    [8]: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080731-scrabulous-goes-
>> for-bonus-points-relaunches-as-wordscraper.html
>>
>>    [9]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anagrams
>>
>>    [10]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bananagrams
>>
>>    [11]: http://reprap.org/
>>
>>    [12]:
>> http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11750492
>>
>> URL: http://freeculture.org/blog/2008/07/31/ideas-for-boycotting-scrabble-and-hasbro/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
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>>     
> Cool ideas, I'm certainly never using the official version anymore. I
> with the developers would release the source code so we could to a mass
> civil disobedience : (
> CRK
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Rob Myers | 1 Aug 12:29

Re: Ideas for boycotting Scrabble and Hasbro

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 4:15 AM, FreeCulture.org - Students for Free
Culture <webleader+rss-bot <at> freeculture.org> wrote:
> Writes Nelson Pavlosky on our blog:
>
> Do you feel that Hasbro's lawsuit against [Scrabulous][1] was rather
> heavy-handed?

http://techdirt.com/articles/20080730/1936041842.shtml

"Days after taking Scrabulous down in response to the lawsuit from
Hasbro, the brothers behind the game have put up a new game called
"WordScraper" that is similar, but has a few different rules as well.
The idea, obviously is to be different enough to get around the
lawsuit from Hasbro. "

Gmane