Alex Hudson | 19 Mar 21:01

Symbian reanimates software patent debate


Nicked off some other lists I read; I haven't seen this echoed here yet. 
Symbian recently got a Court decision overturning a UKIPO decision to 
refuse them a software patent:

    http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Patents/2008/518.html

Actually, Symbian has *two* patents they are appealing. This decision 
concerns the first of these two challenges:

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/patent/p-decisionmaking/p-challenge/p-challenge-decision-results/p-challenge-decision-results-bl?BL_Number=O/209/07
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/patent/p-decisionmaking/p-challenge/p-challenge-decision-results/p-challenge-decision-results-bl?BL_Number=O/238/07

One imagines if they succeed with the first, they may well succeed with 
the second. These patents in my best lay person's explanation:

   1. All about using DLL libraries. The idea with a DLL is that your
      program can call functions from a library, and you have to
      identify that function either by name or by the index into the
      library. This patent claims a slightly different way of doing the
      look-ups so that when libraries are changed in the future, the
      linkage still works. (Actually, I can't claim to really understand
      this - it seems to be a way of keeping an ABI consistent, but not
      much of it makes sense in the context of how I understand
      libraries to work ;)
   2. A method of accessing files in two directory hierarchies. This is
      worse than it sounds - it basically sounds like a method of
      "mounting" a second directory hierarchy onto the first, but not at
      a file system level - e.g., they propose to use string
      stripping/replacing as one way of doing it. As an example, if you
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MJ Ray | 20 Mar 10:29
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Re: Symbian reanimates software patent debate

Alex Hudson <home <at> alexhudson.com> wrote:
> Nicked off some other lists I read; I haven't seen this echoed here yet. 
> Symbian recently got a Court decision overturning a UKIPO decision to 
> refuse them a software patent: [...]

Former colleague Paul Russell passed me
http://www.computing.co.uk/computing/news/2212353/symbian-wins-software-patent
which contains obvious errors and I hadn't found time to look up
the original sources (which VNU don't link - naughty).

It's somewhat worrying that VNU report it as "Symbian's win could
benefit UK software makers" when there will be N makers hurt for every
one that benefits.  I'll drop a short comment to them.

> Hopefully, if we in the UK can get our act together, we can stop this 
> from getting approved: I don't think this patent is very strong, 
> particularly for the above reason.

I agree.  How can we help stop this?  If no-one beats me to it, I'll
ask UKPTO/IPO.  Ironically, I know more about the European PO and
USPTO than how the UK system works.

Regards,
--

-- 
MJ Ray (slef)
Webmaster for hire, statistician and online shop builder for a small
worker cooperative http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/
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Alex Hudson | 20 Mar 10:45

Re: Symbian reanimates software patent debate

MJ Ray wrote:
> It's somewhat worrying that VNU report it as "Symbian's win could
> benefit UK software makers" when there will be N makers hurt for every
> one that benefits.  I'll drop a short comment to them.
>   

I don't want to be too conspiratorial about it, but I do think this has 
been somewhat planned amongst those wishing for software patents - 
things have gone quiet in this country on that front, and they're trying 
again while they think they have cover. Not at all surprising that the 
press is completely one-sided, since there's only one side arguing the 
case now.

>> Hopefully, if we in the UK can get our act together, we can stop this 
>> from getting approved: I don't think this patent is very strong, 
>> particularly for the above reason.
>>     
>
> I agree.  How can we help stop this?  If no-one beats me to it, I'll
> ask UKPTO/IPO.  Ironically, I know more about the European PO and
> USPTO than how the UK system works.
>   

Well, the next step is to ensure that UKIPO appeal the decision to the 
appeals court, and somehow try to make sure that their appeal is upheld. 
FFII-UK is in the process of getting its act together, so I suggest that 
they are the people to lead on this, but there is definitely going to be 
a man-power issue.

To what extent outsiders can get involved in the appeal I don't know, 
(Continue reading)

Lee Braiden | 20 Mar 13:28

Re: Symbian reanimates software patent debate

On Wednesday 19 March 2008 20:02:28 Alex Hudson wrote:
>    1. All about using DLL libraries. The idea with a DLL is that your
>       program can call functions from a library, and you have to
>       identify that function either by name or by the index into the
>       library. This patent claims a slightly different way of doing the
>       look-ups so that when libraries are changed in the future, the
>       linkage still works. (Actually, I can't claim to really understand
>       this - it seems to be a way of keeping an ABI consistent, but not
>       much of it makes sense in the context of how I understand
>       libraries to work ;)

Hmm.  If I read this correctly, it's about using a jumptable to call an 
interface that provides secondary functions -- probably in the sense of a  
provided mode parameter, or in the sense of a virtual method table, or both.  
I guess it could also apply to 

I'm no expert on (modern/unix) DLLs or patent law, but even going back to 
Amiga days, that seems like a basic and well established technique.  As I 
understand this, writing two functions, fopen_binary, and fopen_ascii, and 
then providing an interface along the lines of fopen(x, BINARY) would 
qualify, if you were using the Amiga's (forwards+backwards-compatible) way of 
interfacing with shared libraries.

--

-- 
Lee
MJ Ray | 31 Mar 15:15
Gravatar

Re: Symbian reanimates software patent debate

Alex Hudson <home <at> alexhudson.com> wrote: [...]
> Nicked off some other lists I read; I haven't seen this echoed here yet. 
> Symbian recently got a Court decision overturning a UKIPO decision to 
> refuse them a software patent: [...]

Further information:

Home » Press » Press Releases 2008 » 18 March 2008
Patentability of computer programs - recent High Court judgment
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/press-release-20080318

Regards,
--

-- 
MJ Ray (slef)
Webmaster for hire, statistician and online shop builder for a small
worker cooperative http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/
(Notice http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html) tel:+44-844-4437-237
MJ Ray | 1 Apr 13:03
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Re: Symbian reanimates software patent debate

Now that April Fools' is over, here's more info from Random-bits...

James Love <james.love <at> keionline.org> wrote:
> "It appears as if OOXML will be approved by the ISO.  If so, we are
> disappointed. Microsoft's control over document formats has destroyed
> competition on the desktop, and the fight over OOXML is really a fight
> over the future of competition and innovation. [...]
> James Love, Knowledge Ecology International (KEI)
> http://www.keionline.org

James Love <james.love <at> keionline.org> wrote:
> http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2008/03/31/iso_ooxml_votes_approve/
> OOXML approved as international standard? By Kelly Fiveash
> 31 Mar 2008 10:37 But voting process slammed
>
> Microsoft looks almost certain to have got its Office Open XML (OOXML)
> file format passed as an international standard but the ballot has been
> tarnished by accusations of voting irregularities.
>
> There’s no official word as yet from the International Standards
> Organisation (ISO), the body responsible for overseeing the ballot, but
> according to many observers that have been closely following the
> process, Microsoft appears to have secured enough votes
[...]
> The ISO said it will make an official announcement either later today or
> early tomorrow morning.

Don't you wish it was just foolery?
--

-- 
MJ Ray (slef)
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