Ron Frazier (ALE | 19 Apr 16:43 2012

Fwd: Google and Oracle battle over the future of Android

Hi all,

This is from the AJUG group.  I thought you guys might like to see it.  I hope Oracle doesn't kill the market for Java since I'm about to get serious about learning it.

Apologies for the HTML nature of the message if that causes anyone problems.  That's the way it came into my mailbox.

Sincerely,

Ron


-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Date: From: Reply-To: To:
[ajug-members] Google and Oracle battle over the future of Android
Wed, 18 Apr 2012 15:55:49 +0000
Gabsaga Tata <gabsaga.tata-9pwQ6l2lMjDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
ajug-members-4vciHtwbE8s@public.gmane.org
ajug-members-4vciHtwbE8s@public.gmane.org



 
 

Google and Oracle battle over the future of Android

<at> CNNMoneyTechApril 17, 2012: 3:49 PM ET
Google CEO Larry Page (left) and Oracle CEO Larry Ellison will testify against one another in the coming weeks.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- A landmark court battle between Google and Oracle has begun -- and its result will shape the future of the Android ecosystem fueling most of the world's smartphones.
Silicon Valley's power players are always in the throes of nasty patent fights against each other, but this one is especially potent. Oracle claims that Google's Android violates two patents plus several copyrights that Oracle holds on its Java software, a ubiquitous programming language powering everything from phones to websites.
 
Although both Java and Android are open-source platforms -- neither Google (GOOG, Fortune 500) nor Oracle (ORCL, Fortune 500) generally charge for their use -- their licensing terms are complex and precise. When Java creator Sun Microsystems (acquired by Oracle in 2010) set Java loose as open-source software, it left significant limits in place around the mobile version.
Companies building on top of Java's mobile platform typically pay to license it. Google used an elaborate workaround and essentially built its own version of a key system to avoid those licensing fees and restrictions.
Oracle cried foul and hauled Google off to court -- a move some expected from the moment it agreed to buy Sun.
"During the integration meetings between Sun and Oracle where we were being grilled about the patent situation between Sun and Google, we could see the Oracle lawyer's eyes sparkle," James Gosling, one of Java's original architects, wrote on his blog the day the lawsuit was announced.
After 20 months of prep work and a blizzard of court documents, the trial between the two tech titans kicked off Monday in San Francisco.
Google insists its approach to building Android -- now the most popular smartphone platform in the world -- did not infringe either Java's rules or Oracle's patents, and it thinks Oracle's copyright claims are a sham. It called Oracle's arguments "a classic attempt to improperly assert copyright over an idea rather than expression."
But Oracle thinks it's got a smoking gun: An e-mail sent from Google engineer Tim Lindholm to Android chief Andy Rubin just days before Oracle filed its suit. Warned in advance by Oracle that it believed Google was infringing its patents, Google asked Lindholm to investigate its options.
He didn't like any of them.
"What we've actually been asked to do [by CEO Larry Page and co-founder Sergey Brin] is to investigate what technical alternatives exist to Java for Android and Chrome," Lindholm wrote. "We've been over a bunch of these, and think they all suck. We conclude that we need to negotiate a license for Java under the terms we need."
0:00/3:33Patent baron Myhrvold defends the system
If its lawsuit is successful, Oracle could force Google to pay it tens of millions of dollars in retroactive licensing fees and potentially hundreds of millions more in the future.
But this isn't simply a damages case. Oracle already makes plenty of money. Adding to its stash would be a nice perk, but it's not the main motive for its legal crusade.
Oracle is picking a fight with Google because it feels that Android is threatening the Java platform it got as part of its blockbuster $7.4 billion Sun purchase. Android may be an off-shoot of Java, but its interface and functionality is unique. Code written for Java is not inherently compatible with Android -- and as Android grows, its version of Java threatens to become the dominant one.
Oracle doesn't want to kill Android, but it wants to force Google to play by its rules and make Android compatible with the rest of Java.
That would be extremely difficult for Google and the Android community. Each of the nearly 500,000 Android apps out there would have to be rewritten or tweaked.
But for Oracle, it would be a coup. Developers would be able to write apps around Java's programming interfaces that would also run seamlessly on Android devices.
"That would transcend whatever Google ultimately could pay Oracle," says Florian Mueller, an independent intellectual property analyst and consultant.
New technologies like HTML5 are already making Java less important on the Web. Oracle wants to make sure it doesn't lose the rapidly growing mobile market as well.
Whatever the outcome, don't expect a big decision any time soon.
With so much at stake, experts like Mueller think that this case will get stuck in the courts for years. The two sides -- neither known for backing away from a fight -- will most likely battle and appeal their way straight up to the Supreme Court.

 

__._,_.___
 
 
 


-- (To whom it may concern. My email address has changed. Replying to former messages prior to 03/31/12 with my personal address will go to the wrong address. Please send all personal correspondence to the new address.) (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy mailing lists and such. I don't always see new messages very quickly.) Ron Frazier 770-205-9422 (O) Leave a message. linuxdude AT techstarship.com
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Jim Kinney | 19 Apr 17:30 2012
Picon

Re: Fwd: Google and Oracle battle over the future of Android

More reasons to never use a language "owned" by a company and not a foundation.

Having said that, I'm not sure I can adequately explain my thinking on the difference between a company and a foundation. It really more of an altruistic intent as a dividing line between the two in my mind; something created to solve a problem vs. something created to create a revenue stream. Not that either is exclusive of the other but the original intent seems to take dominance over time.

Besides, starbucks can't make good java so why does oracle think they can do any better?

On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Ron Frazier (ALE) <atllinuxenthinfo-zA16b8kY/CtAS1ZseseUUQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Hi all,

This is from the AJUG group.  I thought you guys might like to see it.  I hope Oracle doesn't kill the market for Java since I'm about to get serious about learning it.

Apologies for the HTML nature of the message if that causes anyone problems.  That's the way it came into my mailbox.

Sincerely,

Ron


-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Date: From: Reply-To: To:
[ajug-members] Google and Oracle battle over the future of Android
Wed, 18 Apr 2012 15:55:49 +0000
Gabsaga Tata <gabsaga.tata-9pwQ6l2lMjDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
ajug-members-4vciHtwbE8s@public.gmane.org
ajug-members-4vciHtwbE8s@public.gmane.org



 
 

Google and Oracle battle over the future of Android

By David Goldman <at> CNNMoneyTechApril 17, 2012: 3:49 PM ET
Google CEO Larry Page (left) and Oracle CEO Larry Ellison will testify against one another in the coming weeks.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- A landmark court battle between Google and Oracle has begun -- and its result will shape the future of the Android ecosystem fueling most of the world's smartphones.
Silicon Valley's power players are always in the throes of nasty patent fights against each other, but this one is especially potent. Oracle claims that Google's Android violates two patents plus several copyrights that Oracle holds on its Java software, a ubiquitous programming language powering everything from phones to websites.
 
Although both Java and Android are open-source platforms -- neither Google (GOOG, Fortune 500) nor Oracle (ORCL, Fortune 500) generally charge for their use -- their licensing terms are complex and precise. When Java creator Sun Microsystems (acquired by Oracle in 2010) set Java loose as open-source software, it left significant limits in place around the mobile version.
Companies building on top of Java's mobile platform typically pay to license it. Google used an elaborate workaround and essentially built its own version of a key system to avoid those licensing fees and restrictions.
Oracle cried foul and hauled Google off to court -- a move some expected from the moment it agreed to buy Sun.
"During the integration meetings between Sun and Oracle where we were being grilled about the patent situation between Sun and Google, we could see the Oracle lawyer's eyes sparkle," James Gosling, one of Java's original architects, wrote on his blog the day the lawsuit was announced.
After 20 months of prep work and a blizzard of court documents, the trial between the two tech titans kicked off Monday in San Francisco.
Google insists its approach to building Android -- now the most popular smartphone platform in the world -- did not infringe either Java's rules or Oracle's patents, and it thinks Oracle's copyright claims are a sham. It called Oracle's arguments "a classic attempt to improperly assert copyright over an idea rather than expression."
But Oracle thinks it's got a smoking gun: An e-mail sent from Google engineer Tim Lindholm to Android chief Andy Rubin just days before Oracle filed its suit. Warned in advance by Oracle that it believed Google was infringing its patents, Google asked Lindholm to investigate its options.
He didn't like any of them.
"What we've actually been asked to do [by CEO Larry Page and co-founder Sergey Brin] is to investigate what technical alternatives exist to Java for Android and Chrome," Lindholm wrote. "We've been over a bunch of these, and think they all suck. We conclude that we need to negotiate a license for Java under the terms we need."
0:00/3:33Patent baron Myhrvold defends the system
If its lawsuit is successful, Oracle could force Google to pay it tens of millions of dollars in retroactive licensing fees and potentially hundreds of millions more in the future.
But this isn't simply a damages case. Oracle already makes plenty of money. Adding to its stash would be a nice perk, but it's not the main motive for its legal crusade.
Oracle is picking a fight with Google because it feels that Android is threatening the Java platform it got as part of its blockbuster $7.4 billion Sun purchase. Android may be an off-shoot of Java, but its interface and functionality is unique. Code written for Java is not inherently compatible with Android -- and as Android grows, its version of Java threatens to become the dominant one.
Oracle doesn't want to kill Android, but it wants to force Google to play by its rules and make Android compatible with the rest of Java.
That would be extremely difficult for Google and the Android community. Each of the nearly 500,000 Android apps out there would have to be rewritten or tweaked.
But for Oracle, it would be a coup. Developers would be able to write apps around Java's programming interfaces that would also run seamlessly on Android devices.
"That would transcend whatever Google ultimately could pay Oracle," says Florian Mueller, an independent intellectual property analyst and consultant.
New technologies like HTML5 are already making Java less important on the Web. Oracle wants to make sure it doesn't lose the rapidly growing mobile market as well.
Whatever the outcome, don't expect a big decision any time soon.
With so much at stake, experts like Mueller think that this case will get stuck in the courts for years. The two sides -- neither known for backing away from a fight -- will most likely battle and appeal their way straight up to the Supreme Court.
First Published: April 17, 2012: 2:36 PM ET

 

__._,_.___
 
 
 


-- (To whom it may concern. My email address has changed. Replying to former messages prior to 03/31/12 with my personal address will go to the wrong address. Please send all personal correspondence to the new address.) (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy mailing lists and such. I don't always see new messages very quickly.) Ron Frazier 770-205-9422 (O) Leave a message. linuxdude AT techstarship.com

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--
James P. Kinney III

As long as the general population is passive, apathetic, diverted to consumerism or hatred of the vulnerable, then the powerful can do as they please, and those who survive will be left to contemplate the outcome.
- 2011 Noam Chomsky

http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/

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Stephen Haywood | 19 Apr 18:00 2012

Re: Fwd: Google and Oracle battle over the future of Android

Google is heavy into python. I wonder if they could use python where they would normally use java and then put in an interpreter that would allow older apps to still run. May be way off base here so feel free to point and laugh.

On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney <at> gmail.com> wrote:
More reasons to never use a language "owned" by a company and not a foundation.

Having said that, I'm not sure I can adequately explain my thinking on the difference between a company and a foundation. It really more of an altruistic intent as a dividing line between the two in my mind; something created to solve a problem vs. something created to create a revenue stream. Not that either is exclusive of the other but the original intent seems to take dominance over time.

Besides, starbucks can't make good java so why does oracle think they can do any better?

On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Ron Frazier (ALE) <atllinuxenthinfo-zA16b8kY/CtAS1ZseseUUQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Hi all,

This is from the AJUG group.  I thought you guys might like to see it.  I hope Oracle doesn't kill the market for Java since I'm about to get serious about learning it.

Apologies for the HTML nature of the message if that causes anyone problems.  That's the way it came into my mailbox.

Sincerely,

Ron


-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Date: From: Reply-To: To:
[ajug-members] Google and Oracle battle over the future of Android
Wed, 18 Apr 2012 15:55:49 +0000
Gabsaga Tata <gabsaga.tata-9pwQ6l2lMjDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
ajug-members-4vciHtwbE8s@public.gmane.org
ajug-members-4vciHtwbE8s@public.gmane.org



 
 

Google and Oracle battle over the future of Android

By David Goldman <at> CNNMoneyTechApril 17, 2012: 3:49 PM ET
Google CEO Larry Page (left) and Oracle CEO Larry Ellison will testify against one another in the coming weeks.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- A landmark court battle between Google and Oracle has begun -- and its result will shape the future of the Android ecosystem fueling most of the world's smartphones.
Silicon Valley's power players are always in the throes of nasty patent fights against each other, but this one is especially potent. Oracle claims that Google's Android violates two patents plus several copyrights that Oracle holds on its Java software, a ubiquitous programming language powering everything from phones to websites.
 
Although both Java and Android are open-source platforms -- neither Google (GOOG, Fortune 500) nor Oracle (ORCL, Fortune 500) generally charge for their use -- their licensing terms are complex and precise. When Java creator Sun Microsystems (acquired by Oracle in 2010) set Java loose as open-source software, it left significant limits in place around the mobile version.
Companies building on top of Java's mobile platform typically pay to license it. Google used an elaborate workaround and essentially built its own version of a key system to avoid those licensing fees and restrictions.
Oracle cried foul and hauled Google off to court -- a move some expected from the moment it agreed to buy Sun.
"During the integration meetings between Sun and Oracle where we were being grilled about the patent situation between Sun and Google, we could see the Oracle lawyer's eyes sparkle," James Gosling, one of Java's original architects, wrote on his blog the day the lawsuit was announced.
After 20 months of prep work and a blizzard of court documents, the trial between the two tech titans kicked off Monday in San Francisco.
Google insists its approach to building Android -- now the most popular smartphone platform in the world -- did not infringe either Java's rules or Oracle's patents, and it thinks Oracle's copyright claims are a sham. It called Oracle's arguments "a classic attempt to improperly assert copyright over an idea rather than expression."
But Oracle thinks it's got a smoking gun: An e-mail sent from Google engineer Tim Lindholm to Android chief Andy Rubin just days before Oracle filed its suit. Warned in advance by Oracle that it believed Google was infringing its patents, Google asked Lindholm to investigate its options.
He didn't like any of them.
"What we've actually been asked to do [by CEO Larry Page and co-founder Sergey Brin] is to investigate what technical alternatives exist to Java for Android and Chrome," Lindholm wrote. "We've been over a bunch of these, and think they all suck. We conclude that we need to negotiate a license for Java under the terms we need."
0:00/3:33Patent baron Myhrvold defends the system
If its lawsuit is successful, Oracle could force Google to pay it tens of millions of dollars in retroactive licensing fees and potentially hundreds of millions more in the future.
But this isn't simply a damages case. Oracle already makes plenty of money. Adding to its stash would be a nice perk, but it's not the main motive for its legal crusade.
Oracle is picking a fight with Google because it feels that Android is threatening the Java platform it got as part of its blockbuster $7.4 billion Sun purchase. Android may be an off-shoot of Java, but its interface and functionality is unique. Code written for Java is not inherently compatible with Android -- and as Android grows, its version of Java threatens to become the dominant one.
Oracle doesn't want to kill Android, but it wants to force Google to play by its rules and make Android compatible with the rest of Java.
That would be extremely difficult for Google and the Android community. Each of the nearly 500,000 Android apps out there would have to be rewritten or tweaked.
But for Oracle, it would be a coup. Developers would be able to write apps around Java's programming interfaces that would also run seamlessly on Android devices.
"That would transcend whatever Google ultimately could pay Oracle," says Florian Mueller, an independent intellectual property analyst and consultant.
New technologies like HTML5 are already making Java less important on the Web. Oracle wants to make sure it doesn't lose the rapidly growing mobile market as well.
Whatever the outcome, don't expect a big decision any time soon.
With so much at stake, experts like Mueller think that this case will get stuck in the courts for years. The two sides -- neither known for backing away from a fight -- will most likely battle and appeal their way straight up to the Supreme Court.
First Published: April 17, 2012: 2:36 PM ET

 

__._,_.___
 
 
 


-- (To whom it may concern. My email address has changed. Replying to former messages prior to 03/31/12 with my personal address will go to the wrong address. Please send all personal correspondence to the new address.) (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy mailing lists and such. I don't always see new messages very quickly.) Ron Frazier 770-205-9422 (O) Leave a message. linuxdude AT techstarship.com

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--
--
James P. Kinney III

As long as the general population is passive, apathetic, diverted to consumerism or hatred of the vulnerable, then the powerful can do as they please, and those who survive will be left to contemplate the outcome.
- 2011 Noam Chomsky

http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/


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Information Security Consultant
CISSP, GPEN, OSCP
T: <at> averagesecguy
W: averagesecurityguy.info

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Rev. Johnny Healey | 20 Apr 01:17 2012
Picon

Re: Fwd: Google and Oracle battle over the future of Android

Well, it would be feasible to write a java virtual machine in python, but it would probably not be very fast and it wouldn't actually solve the problem. Oracle isn't actually claiming infringement of the VM, or even the Java language. They're complaint seems to be that Google built and API that is compatible with the existing Sun Java API. It's kind of an odd stance to take and runs counter to what has been the cultural norm in the software industry (think of how many libc implementations there are).

I've been following the case a bit and it really highlights the confusion as to whether or not anyone actually owns Java. Larry Ellison could not answer whether or not Java can be freely implemented by anyone. Sun supposedly GPL'd the language half a decade ago, but then there are issues with the licensing of the Technology Compatibility Kit (TCK) which basically prevents someone from building a clean room implementation of Java.

In short, Oracle's argument is that Java is free to implement as long as what you implement isn't compatible with Java.

-Rev. Johnny Healey

On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Stephen Haywood <stephen <at> averagesecurityguy.info> wrote:
Google is heavy into python. I wonder if they could use python where they would normally use java and then put in an interpreter that would allow older apps to still run. May be way off base here so feel free to point and laugh.

--
Stephen Haywood
Information Security Consultant
CISSP, GPEN, OSCP
T: <at> averagesecguy
W: averagesecurityguy.info


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Cameron Kilgore | 20 Apr 03:32 2012
Picon

Re: Fwd: Google and Oracle battle over the future of Android

Well if that's the case, Dalvik is definitely incompatible with Java.

>Stephen Haywood wrote
>Google is heavy into python. I wonder if they could use python where they would normally use java and then put in an interpreter that would allow older apps to still run. May be way off base here so feel free to point and laugh.

Technically, Dalvik can run anything built for it. There are ways to build Python and Scala for Dalvik.

-- 
Cameron Kilgore
Sent with Sparrow

On Thursday, April 19, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Rev. Johnny Healey wrote:

Well, it would be feasible to write a java virtual machine in python, but it would probably not be very fast and it wouldn't actually solve the problem. Oracle isn't actually claiming infringement of the VM, or even the Java language. They're complaint seems to be that Google built and API that is compatible with the existing Sun Java API. It's kind of an odd stance to take and runs counter to what has been the cultural norm in the software industry (think of how many libc implementations there are).

I've been following the case a bit and it really highlights the confusion as to whether or not anyone actually owns Java. Larry Ellison could not answer whether or not Java can be freely implemented by anyone. Sun supposedly GPL'd the language half a decade ago, but then there are issues with the licensing of the Technology Compatibility Kit (TCK) which basically prevents someone from building a clean room implementation of Java.

In short, Oracle's argument is that Java is free to implement as long as what you implement isn't compatible with Java.

-Rev. Johnny Healey

On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Stephen Haywood <stephen <at> averagesecurityguy.info> wrote:
Google is heavy into python. I wonder if they could use python where they would normally use java and then put in an interpreter that would allow older apps to still run. May be way off base here so feel free to point and laugh.

--
Stephen Haywood
Information Security Consultant
CISSP, GPEN, OSCP
T: <at> averagesecguy
W: averagesecurityguy.info


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arxaaron | 20 Apr 17:03 2012
Picon

Re: Fwd: Google and Oracle battle over the future of Android

On 2012/04/19, at 21:32 , Cameron Kilgore wrote:

> Well if that's the case, Dalvik is definitely incompatible with Java.
>
> > Stephen Haywood wrote
> > Google is heavy into python. I wonder if they could use python
> > where they would normally use java and then put in an interpreter
> > that would allow older apps to still run. May be way off base here
> > so feel free to point and laugh.
>
> Technically, Dalvik can run anything built for it.
> There are ways to build Python and Scala for Dalvik.
>

And for those who had never heard the name "Dalvik" before
(like yours truly):

"Dalvik is the process virtual machine (VM) in Google's Android
operating system. It is the software that runs the apps on Android
devices. Dalvik is thus an integral part of Android, which is typically
used on mobile devices such as mobile phones and tablet computers.
Programs are commonly written in a dialect of Java and compiled
to bytecode. Then they are converted from Java Virtual Machine-
compatible .class files to Dalvik-compatible .dex (Dalvik Executable)
files before installation on a device. The compact Dalvik Executable
format is designed to be suitable for systems that are constrained
in terms of memory and processor speed."

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalvik_(software)>

> --  
> Cameron Kilgore
> Sent with Sparrow
>
> On Thursday, April 19, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Rev. Johnny Healey wrote:
>
>> Well, it would be feasible to write a java virtual machine in  
>> python, but it would probably not be very fast and it wouldn't  
>> actually solve the problem. Oracle isn't actually claiming  
>> infringement of the VM, or even the Java language. They're  
>> complaint seems to be that Google built and API that is compatible  
>> with the existing Sun Java API. It's kind of an odd stance to take  
>> and runs counter to what has been the cultural norm in the software  
>> industry (think of how many libc implementations there are).
>>
>> I've been following the case a bit and it really highlights the  
>> confusion as to whether or not anyone actually owns Java. Larry  
>> Ellison could not answer whether or not Java can be freely  
>> implemented by anyone. Sun supposedly GPL'd the language half a  
>> decade ago, but then there are issues with the licensing of the  
>> Technology Compatibility Kit (TCK) which basically prevents someone  
>> from building a clean room implementation of Java.
>>
>> In short, Oracle's argument is that Java is free to implement as  
>> long as what you implement isn't compatible with Java.
>>
>> -Rev. Johnny Healey
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Stephen Haywood
<stephen@... 
>> > wrote:
>>> Google is heavy into python. I wonder if they could use python  
>>> where they would normally use java and then put in an interpreter  
>>> that would allow older apps to still run. May be way off base here  
>>> so feel free to point and laugh.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Stephen Haywood
>>> Information Security Consultant
>>> CISSP, GPEN, OSCP
>>> T:  <at> averagesecguy
>>> W: averagesecurityguy.info
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ale mailing list
>>> Ale@...
>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale@...
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale@...
> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
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> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo

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Justin Goldberg | 20 Apr 23:02 2012
Picon

Re: Fwd: Google and Oracle battle over the future of Android

And Blackberry might open-source their OS. But its 100% Java compliant.

The thing is, Google has never said that Dalvik is Java. They've
always called it the Dalvik VM and they don't advertise it as being
Java compatible, until MS J++ . Which makes me think Oracle doesn't
have a leg to stand on.

On 4/20/12, arxaaron <arxaaron@...> wrote:
> On 2012/04/19, at 21:32 , Cameron Kilgore wrote:
>
>> Well if that's the case, Dalvik is definitely incompatible with Java.
>>
>> > Stephen Haywood wrote
>> > Google is heavy into python. I wonder if they could use python
>> > where they would normally use java and then put in an interpreter
>> > that would allow older apps to still run. May be way off base here
>> > so feel free to point and laugh.
>>
>> Technically, Dalvik can run anything built for it.
>> There are ways to build Python and Scala for Dalvik.
>>
>
> And for those who had never heard the name "Dalvik" before
> (like yours truly):
>
> "Dalvik is the process virtual machine (VM) in Google's Android
> operating system. It is the software that runs the apps on Android
> devices. Dalvik is thus an integral part of Android, which is typically
> used on mobile devices such as mobile phones and tablet computers.
> Programs are commonly written in a dialect of Java and compiled
> to bytecode. Then they are converted from Java Virtual Machine-
> compatible .class files to Dalvik-compatible .dex (Dalvik Executable)
> files before installation on a device. The compact Dalvik Executable
> format is designed to be suitable for systems that are constrained
> in terms of memory and processor speed."
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalvik_(software)>
>
>
>
>> --
>> Cameron Kilgore
>> Sent with Sparrow
>>
>> On Thursday, April 19, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Rev. Johnny Healey wrote:
>>
>>> Well, it would be feasible to write a java virtual machine in
>>> python, but it would probably not be very fast and it wouldn't
>>> actually solve the problem. Oracle isn't actually claiming
>>> infringement of the VM, or even the Java language. They're
>>> complaint seems to be that Google built and API that is compatible
>>> with the existing Sun Java API. It's kind of an odd stance to take
>>> and runs counter to what has been the cultural norm in the software
>>> industry (think of how many libc implementations there are).
>>>
>>> I've been following the case a bit and it really highlights the
>>> confusion as to whether or not anyone actually owns Java. Larry
>>> Ellison could not answer whether or not Java can be freely
>>> implemented by anyone. Sun supposedly GPL'd the language half a
>>> decade ago, but then there are issues with the licensing of the
>>> Technology Compatibility Kit (TCK) which basically prevents someone
>>> from building a clean room implementation of Java.
>>>
>>> In short, Oracle's argument is that Java is free to implement as
>>> long as what you implement isn't compatible with Java.
>>>
>>> -Rev. Johnny Healey
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Stephen Haywood
>>> <stephen@...
>>> > wrote:
>>>> Google is heavy into python. I wonder if they could use python
>>>> where they would normally use java and then put in an interpreter
>>>> that would allow older apps to still run. May be way off base here
>>>> so feel free to point and laugh.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Stephen Haywood
>>>> Information Security Consultant
>>>> CISSP, GPEN, OSCP
>>>> T:  <at> averagesecguy
>>>> W: averagesecurityguy.info
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Ale mailing list
>>>> Ale@...
>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ale mailing list
>>> Ale@...
>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale@...
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale@...
> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>

--

-- 

Justin Goldberg

*justgold79@...*
(504) 208-1158
http://gplus.to/goldberg
http://twitter.com/justingoldberg
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale@...
http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo

Cameron Kilgore | 20 Apr 23:12 2012
Picon

Re: Fwd: Google and Oracle battle over the future of Android

I've never been able to run Java class files inside Dalvik. Hell, I have enough of a problem porting J2SE code to Dalvik/Android without rewriting chunks for org.android.* or apache.* blocks.

-- 
Cameron Kilgore
Sent with Sparrow

On Friday, April 20, 2012 at 11:03 AM, arxaaron wrote:

On 2012/04/19, at 21:32 , Cameron Kilgore wrote:

Well if that's the case, Dalvik is definitely incompatible with Java.

Stephen Haywood wrote
Google is heavy into python. I wonder if they could use python
where they would normally use java and then put in an interpreter
that would allow older apps to still run. May be way off base here
so feel free to point and laugh.

Technically, Dalvik can run anything built for it.
There are ways to build Python and Scala for Dalvik.

And for those who had never heard the name "Dalvik" before
(like yours truly):

"Dalvik is the process virtual machine (VM) in Google's Android
operating system. It is the software that runs the apps on Android
devices. Dalvik is thus an integral part of Android, which is typically
used on mobile devices such as mobile phones and tablet computers.
Programs are commonly written in a dialect of Java and compiled
to bytecode. Then they are converted from Java Virtual Machine-
compatible .class files to Dalvik-compatible .dex (Dalvik Executable)
files before installation on a device. The compact Dalvik Executable
format is designed to be suitable for systems that are constrained
in terms of memory and processor speed."




--
Cameron Kilgore
Sent with Sparrow

On Thursday, April 19, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Rev. Johnny Healey wrote:

Well, it would be feasible to write a java virtual machine in
python, but it would probably not be very fast and it wouldn't
actually solve the problem. Oracle isn't actually claiming
infringement of the VM, or even the Java language. They're
complaint seems to be that Google built and API that is compatible
with the existing Sun Java API. It's kind of an odd stance to take
and runs counter to what has been the cultural norm in the software
industry (think of how many libc implementations there are).

I've been following the case a bit and it really highlights the
confusion as to whether or not anyone actually owns Java. Larry
Ellison could not answer whether or not Java can be freely
implemented by anyone. Sun supposedly GPL'd the language half a
decade ago, but then there are issues with the licensing of the
Technology Compatibility Kit (TCK) which basically prevents someone
from building a clean room implementation of Java.

In short, Oracle's argument is that Java is free to implement as
long as what you implement isn't compatible with Java.

-Rev. Johnny Healey

On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Stephen Haywood <stephen <at> averagesecurityguy.info
wrote:
Google is heavy into python. I wonder if they could use python
where they would normally use java and then put in an interpreter
that would allow older apps to still run. May be way off base here
so feel free to point and laugh.

--
Stephen Haywood
Information Security Consultant
CISSP, GPEN, OSCP
T: <at> averagesecguy


_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale@...
http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
Justin Goldberg | 20 Apr 03:46 2012
Picon

Re: Fwd: Google and Oracle battle over the future of Android

You can run Android apps on bluestack on windoze. Is that also in violation?

On 4/19/12, Stephen Haywood <stephen@...> wrote:
> Google is heavy into python. I wonder if they could use python where they
> would normally use java and then put in an interpreter that would allow
> older apps to still run. May be way off base here so feel free to point and
> laugh.
>
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney@...> wrote:
>
>> More reasons to never use a language "owned" by a company and not a
>> foundation.
>>
>> Having said that, I'm not sure I can adequately explain my thinking on the
>> difference between a company and a foundation. It really more of an
>> altruistic intent as a dividing line between the two in my mind; something
>> created to solve a problem vs. something created to create a revenue
>> stream. Not that either is exclusive of the other but the original intent
>> seems to take dominance over time.
>>
>> Besides, starbucks can't make good java so why does oracle think they can
>> do any better?
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Ron Frazier (ALE) <
>> atllinuxenthinfo@...> wrote:
>>
>>> **
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> This is from the AJUG group.  I thought you guys might like to see it.  I
>>> hope Oracle doesn't kill the market for Java since I'm about to get
>>> serious
>>> about learning it.
>>>
>>> Apologies for the HTML nature of the message if that causes anyone
>>> problems.  That's the way it came into my mailbox.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Ron
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------  Subject: [ajug-members] Google and
>>> Oracle battle over the future of Android  Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012
>>> 15:55:49 +0000  From: Gabsaga Tata
>>>
<gabsaga.tata@...><gabsaga.tata@...>
 Reply-To:
>>> ajug-members@...  To: ajug-members@...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   http://money.cnn.com/2012/04/16/technology/google-oracle/index.htm
>>>
>>>  Google and Oracle battle over the future of Android
>>> By David Goldman <david.goldman@...>
>>>  <at> CNNMoneyTech<https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=cnnmoneytech>April
>>> 17, 2012: 3:49 PM ET
>>>  [image: Google CEO Larry Page (left) and Oracle CEO Larry Ellison will
>>> testify against one another in the coming weeks.]
>>> Google CEO Larry Page (left) and Oracle CEO Larry Ellison will testify
>>> against one another in the coming weeks.
>>>  NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- A landmark court battle between Google and
>>> Oracle has begun -- and its result will shape the future of the Android
>>> ecosystem fueling most of the world's smartphones.
>>> Silicon Valley's power players are always in the throes of nasty patent
>>> fights against each
>>> other<http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/2011/08/18/technology/patent_bubble/index.htm>,
>>> but this one is especially potent. Oracle claims that Google's Android
>>> violates two patents plus several copyrights that Oracle holds on its
>>> Java
>>> software, a ubiquitous programming language powering everything from
>>> phones
>>> to websites.
>>>
>>>  Although both Java and Android are open-source
>>> platforms<http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/2010/08/13/technology/oracle_android/index.htm>--
>>> neither Google (
>>> GOOG<http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=GOOG&source=story_quote_link>,
>>> Fortune
>>> 500<http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2011/snapshots/11207.html?source=story_f500_link>)
>>> nor Oracle
>>> (ORCL<http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=ORCL&source=story_quote_link>,
>>> Fortune
>>> 500<http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2011/snapshots/3057.html?source=story_f500_link>)
>>> generally charge for their use -- their licensing terms are complex and
>>> precise. When Java creator Sun Microsystems (acquired by
>>> Oracle<http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/2009/04/20/technology/Oracle_Sun/index.htm>in
>>> 2010) set Java loose as open-source software, it left significant limits
>>> in place around the mobile version.
>>> Companies building on top of Java's mobile platform typically pay to
>>> license it. Google used an elaborate workaround and essentially built
>>> its own
>>> version<http://www.betaversion.org/%7Estefano/linotype/news/110/>of a key
>>> system to avoid those licensing fees and restrictions.
>>> Oracle cried foul and hauled Google off to court -- a move some expected
>>> from the moment it agreed to buy Sun.
>>> "During the integration meetings between Sun and Oracle where we were
>>> being grilled about the patent situation between Sun and Google, we could
>>> see the Oracle lawyer's eyes sparkle," James Gosling, one of Java's
>>> original architects, wrote on his
>>> blog<http://nighthacks.com/roller/jag/entry/the_shit_finally_hits_the>the
>>> day the lawsuit was announced.
>>> After 20 months of prep work and a blizzard of court documents, the trial
>>> between the two tech titans kicked off Monday in San Francisco.
>>> Google insists its approach to building Android -- now the most popular
>>> smartphone platform in the
>>> world<http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/2011/03/07/technology/android/index.htm>--
>>> did not infringe either Java's rules or Oracle's patents, and it thinks
>>> Oracle's copyright claims are a sham. It called Oracle's arguments "a
>>> classic attempt to improperly assert copyright over an idea rather than
>>> expression."
>>> But Oracle thinks it's got a smoking gun: An e-mail sent from Google
>>> engineer Tim Lindholm to Android chief Andy Rubin just days before Oracle
>>> filed its suit. Warned in advance by Oracle that it believed Google was
>>> infringing its patents, Google asked Lindholm to investigate its options.
>>> He didn't like any of them.
>>> "What we've actually been asked to do [by CEO Larry Page and co-founder
>>> Sergey Brin] is to investigate what technical alternatives exist to Java
>>> for Android and Chrome," Lindholm wrote. "We've been over a bunch of
>>> these,
>>> and think they all suck. We conclude that we need to negotiate a license
>>> for Java under the terms we need."
>>> Google fought to keep that e-mail out of
>>> bounds<http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20120206194613886>,
>>> but lost.
>>> 0:00/3:33Patent baron Myhrvold defends the system
>>> If its lawsuit is successful, Oracle could force Google to pay it tens of
>>> millions of dollars in retroactive licensing fees and potentially
>>> hundreds
>>> of millions more in the future.
>>> But this isn't simply a damages case. Oracle already makes plenty of
>>> money. Adding to its stash would be a nice perk, but it's not the main
>>> motive for its legal crusade.
>>> Oracle is picking a fight with Google because it feels that Android is
>>> threatening the Java platform it got as part of its blockbuster $7.4
>>> billion Sun purchase. Android may be an off-shoot of Java, but its
>>> interface and functionality is unique. Code written for Java is not
>>> inherently compatible with Android -- and as Android grows, its version
>>> of
>>> Java threatens to become the dominant one.
>>> Oracle doesn't want to kill Android, but it wants to force Google to play
>>> by its rules and make Android compatible with the rest of Java.
>>> That would be extremely difficult for Google and the Android community.
>>> Each of the nearly 500,000 Android apps out there would have to be
>>> rewritten or tweaked.
>>> But for Oracle, it would be a coup. Developers would be able to write
>>> apps around Java's programming interfaces that would also run seamlessly
>>> on
>>> Android devices.
>>> "That would transcend whatever Google ultimately could pay Oracle," says
>>> Florian Mueller, an independent intellectual property analyst and
>>> consultant.
>>> New technologies like HTML5 are already making Java less important on the
>>> Web. Oracle wants to make sure it doesn't lose the rapidly growing mobile
>>> market as well.
>>> Whatever the outcome, don't expect a big decision any time soon.
>>> With so much at stake, experts like Mueller think that this case will get
>>> stuck in the courts for years. The two sides -- neither known for backing
>>> away from a fight -- will most likely battle and appeal their way
>>> straight
>>> up to the Supreme Court. [image: To top of
>>> page]<http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/neo/#TOP>
>>> First Published: April 17, 2012: 2:36 PM ET
>>>
>>>
>>>  __._,_.___
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> (To whom it may concern.  My email address has changed.  Replying to
>>> former
>>> messages prior to 03/31/12 with my personal address will go to the wrong
>>> address.  Please send all personal correspondence to the new address.)
>>>
>>> (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
>>> call on the phone.  I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
>>> mailing lists and such.  I don't always see new messages very quickly.)
>>>
>>> Ron Frazier
>>> 770-205-9422 (O)   Leave a message.
>>> linuxdude AT techstarship.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ale mailing list
>>> Ale@...
>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> James P. Kinney III
>>
>> As long as the general population is passive, apathetic, diverted to
>> consumerism or hatred of the vulnerable, then the powerful can do as they
>> please, and those who survive will be left to contemplate the outcome.
>> - *2011 Noam Chomsky
>>
>> http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/
>> *
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale@...
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Stephen Haywood
> Information Security Consultant
> CISSP, GPEN, OSCP
> T:  <at> averagesecguy
> W: averagesecurityguy.info
>

--

-- 

Justin Goldberg

*justgold79@...*
(504) 208-1158
http://gplus.to/goldberg
http://twitter.com/justingoldberg
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale@...
http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo

Charles Shapiro | 20 Apr 15:54 2012
Picon

Re: Fwd: Google and Oracle battle over the future of Android

Stallman summed it up nicely way back in 2004 (
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html ).

On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Justin Goldberg
<justgold79@...> wrote:
> You can run Android apps on bluestack on windoze. Is that also in violation?
>
> On 4/19/12, Stephen Haywood <stephen@...> wrote:
>> Google is heavy into python. I wonder if they could use python where they
>> would normally use java and then put in an interpreter that would allow
>> older apps to still run. May be way off base here so feel free to point and
>> laugh.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney@...> wrote:
>>
>>> More reasons to never use a language "owned" by a company and not a
>>> foundation.
>>>
>>> Having said that, I'm not sure I can adequately explain my thinking on the
>>> difference between a company and a foundation. It really more of an
>>> altruistic intent as a dividing line between the two in my mind; something
>>> created to solve a problem vs. something created to create a revenue
>>> stream. Not that either is exclusive of the other but the original intent
>>> seems to take dominance over time.
>>>
>>> Besides, starbucks can't make good java so why does oracle think they can
>>> do any better?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Ron Frazier (ALE) <
>>> atllinuxenthinfo@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> **
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> This is from the AJUG group.  I thought you guys might like to see it.  I
>>>> hope Oracle doesn't kill the market for Java since I'm about to get
>>>> serious
>>>> about learning it.
>>>>
>>>> Apologies for the HTML nature of the message if that causes anyone
>>>> problems.  That's the way it came into my mailbox.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>> Ron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------- Original Message --------  Subject: [ajug-members] Google and
>>>> Oracle battle over the future of Android  Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012
>>>> 15:55:49 +0000  From: Gabsaga Tata
>>>>
<gabsaga.tata@...><gabsaga.tata@...>  Reply-To:
>>>> ajug-members@...  To: ajug-members@...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   http://money.cnn.com/2012/04/16/technology/google-oracle/index.htm
>>>>
>>>>  Google and Oracle battle over the future of Android
>>>> By David Goldman <david.goldman@...>
>>>>  <at> CNNMoneyTech<https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=cnnmoneytech>April
>>>> 17, 2012: 3:49 PM ET
>>>>  [image: Google CEO Larry Page (left) and Oracle CEO Larry Ellison will
>>>> testify against one another in the coming weeks.]
>>>> Google CEO Larry Page (left) and Oracle CEO Larry Ellison will testify
>>>> against one another in the coming weeks.
>>>>  NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- A landmark court battle between Google and
>>>> Oracle has begun -- and its result will shape the future of the Android
>>>> ecosystem fueling most of the world's smartphones.
>>>> Silicon Valley's power players are always in the throes of nasty patent
>>>> fights against each
>>>> other<http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/2011/08/18/technology/patent_bubble/index.htm>,
>>>> but this one is especially potent. Oracle claims that Google's Android
>>>> violates two patents plus several copyrights that Oracle holds on its
>>>> Java
>>>> software, a ubiquitous programming language powering everything from
>>>> phones
>>>> to websites.
>>>>
>>>>  Although both Java and Android are open-source
>>>> platforms<http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/2010/08/13/technology/oracle_android/index.htm>--
>>>> neither Google (
>>>> GOOG<http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=GOOG&source=story_quote_link>,
>>>> Fortune
>>>> 500<http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2011/snapshots/11207.html?source=story_f500_link>)
>>>> nor Oracle
>>>> (ORCL<http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=ORCL&source=story_quote_link>,
>>>> Fortune
>>>> 500<http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2011/snapshots/3057.html?source=story_f500_link>)
>>>> generally charge for their use -- their licensing terms are complex and
>>>> precise. When Java creator Sun Microsystems (acquired by
>>>> Oracle<http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/2009/04/20/technology/Oracle_Sun/index.htm>in
>>>> 2010) set Java loose as open-source software, it left significant limits
>>>> in place around the mobile version.
>>>> Companies building on top of Java's mobile platform typically pay to
>>>> license it. Google used an elaborate workaround and essentially built
>>>> its own
>>>> version<http://www.betaversion.org/%7Estefano/linotype/news/110/>of a key
>>>> system to avoid those licensing fees and restrictions.
>>>> Oracle cried foul and hauled Google off to court -- a move some expected
>>>> from the moment it agreed to buy Sun.
>>>> "During the integration meetings between Sun and Oracle where we were
>>>> being grilled about the patent situation between Sun and Google, we could
>>>> see the Oracle lawyer's eyes sparkle," James Gosling, one of Java's
>>>> original architects, wrote on his
>>>> blog<http://nighthacks.com/roller/jag/entry/the_shit_finally_hits_the>the
>>>> day the lawsuit was announced.
>>>> After 20 months of prep work and a blizzard of court documents, the trial
>>>> between the two tech titans kicked off Monday in San Francisco.
>>>> Google insists its approach to building Android -- now the most popular
>>>> smartphone platform in the
>>>> world<http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/2011/03/07/technology/android/index.htm>--
>>>> did not infringe either Java's rules or Oracle's patents, and it thinks
>>>> Oracle's copyright claims are a sham. It called Oracle's arguments "a
>>>> classic attempt to improperly assert copyright over an idea rather than
>>>> expression."
>>>> But Oracle thinks it's got a smoking gun: An e-mail sent from Google
>>>> engineer Tim Lindholm to Android chief Andy Rubin just days before Oracle
>>>> filed its suit. Warned in advance by Oracle that it believed Google was
>>>> infringing its patents, Google asked Lindholm to investigate its options.
>>>> He didn't like any of them.
>>>> "What we've actually been asked to do [by CEO Larry Page and co-founder
>>>> Sergey Brin] is to investigate what technical alternatives exist to Java
>>>> for Android and Chrome," Lindholm wrote. "We've been over a bunch of
>>>> these,
>>>> and think they all suck. We conclude that we need to negotiate a license
>>>> for Java under the terms we need."
>>>> Google fought to keep that e-mail out of
>>>> bounds<http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20120206194613886>,
>>>> but lost.
>>>> 0:00/3:33Patent baron Myhrvold defends the system
>>>> If its lawsuit is successful, Oracle could force Google to pay it tens of
>>>> millions of dollars in retroactive licensing fees and potentially
>>>> hundreds
>>>> of millions more in the future.
>>>> But this isn't simply a damages case. Oracle already makes plenty of
>>>> money. Adding to its stash would be a nice perk, but it's not the main
>>>> motive for its legal crusade.
>>>> Oracle is picking a fight with Google because it feels that Android is
>>>> threatening the Java platform it got as part of its blockbuster $7.4
>>>> billion Sun purchase. Android may be an off-shoot of Java, but its
>>>> interface and functionality is unique. Code written for Java is not
>>>> inherently compatible with Android -- and as Android grows, its version
>>>> of
>>>> Java threatens to become the dominant one.
>>>> Oracle doesn't want to kill Android, but it wants to force Google to play
>>>> by its rules and make Android compatible with the rest of Java.
>>>> That would be extremely difficult for Google and the Android community.
>>>> Each of the nearly 500,000 Android apps out there would have to be
>>>> rewritten or tweaked.
>>>> But for Oracle, it would be a coup. Developers would be able to write
>>>> apps around Java's programming interfaces that would also run seamlessly
>>>> on
>>>> Android devices.
>>>> "That would transcend whatever Google ultimately could pay Oracle," says
>>>> Florian Mueller, an independent intellectual property analyst and
>>>> consultant.
>>>> New technologies like HTML5 are already making Java less important on the
>>>> Web. Oracle wants to make sure it doesn't lose the rapidly growing mobile
>>>> market as well.
>>>> Whatever the outcome, don't expect a big decision any time soon.
>>>> With so much at stake, experts like Mueller think that this case will get
>>>> stuck in the courts for years. The two sides -- neither known for backing
>>>> away from a fight -- will most likely battle and appeal their way
>>>> straight
>>>> up to the Supreme Court. [image: To top of
>>>> page]<http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/neo/#TOP>
>>>> First Published: April 17, 2012: 2:36 PM ET
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  __._,_.___
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> (To whom it may concern.  My email address has changed.  Replying to
>>>> former
>>>> messages prior to 03/31/12 with my personal address will go to the wrong
>>>> address.  Please send all personal correspondence to the new address.)
>>>>
>>>> (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
>>>> call on the phone.  I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
>>>> mailing lists and such.  I don't always see new messages very quickly.)
>>>>
>>>> Ron Frazier
>>>> 770-205-9422 (O)   Leave a message.
>>>> linuxdude AT techstarship.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Ale mailing list
>>>> Ale@...
>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> James P. Kinney III
>>>
>>> As long as the general population is passive, apathetic, diverted to
>>> consumerism or hatred of the vulnerable, then the powerful can do as they
>>> please, and those who survive will be left to contemplate the outcome.
>>> - *2011 Noam Chomsky
>>>
>>> http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/
>>> *
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ale mailing list
>>> Ale@...
>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Stephen Haywood
>> Information Security Consultant
>> CISSP, GPEN, OSCP
>> T:  <at> averagesecguy
>> W: averagesecurityguy.info
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Justin Goldberg
>
> *justgold79@...*
> (504) 208-1158
> http://gplus.to/goldberg
> http://twitter.com/justingoldberg
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale@...
> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
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