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Randy Ramsdell | 4 Oct 2005 16:50
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Re: codeweaver's crossover w/ Windows Media Player on Gnome

On Tue, 2005-10-04 at 07:35 -0400, Kurt Guenther wrote:
> Kurt Guenther wrote:
> 
> >
> > Has anybody gotten this working?  As root, I get picture, but no 
> > sound.  Gnome uses esound, so it may be that it's not configured right.
> 
> 
> I found it on the FAQ that they don't support esound.  I'm 
> disappointed.  It seems the product is still very weak.

Actually, I think the product is fantastic, but it would be nice to
support media player fully. My guess is that Microsoft aren't helping
them make a better product. IMHO

rcr

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Kurt Guenther | 4 Oct 2005 19:29
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Re: codeweaver's crossover w/ Windows Media Player on Gnome

Randy Ramsdell wrote:

>On Tue, 2005-10-04 at 07:35 -0400, Kurt Guenther wrote:
>  
>
>>Kurt Guenther wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Has anybody gotten this working?  As root, I get picture, but no 
>>>sound.  Gnome uses esound, so it may be that it's not configured right.
>>>      
>>>
>>I found it on the FAQ that they don't support esound.  I'm 
>>disappointed.  It seems the product is still very weak.
>>    
>>
>
>Actually, I think the product is fantastic, but it would be nice to
>support media player fully. My guess is that Microsoft aren't helping
>them make a better product. IMHO
>  
>

What apps do you use it for?  I was hoping for Quickbooks and Windows 
Media Player, but I'm coming up short.

--Kurt

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Kurt Guenther | 5 Oct 2005 15:34
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Re: codeweaver's crossover w/ Windows Media Player on Gnome


btw, I received a full refund and I offered to buy a copy on the website 
if they fix these issues.

--Kurt

Kurt Guenther wrote:

> Randy Ramsdell wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 2005-10-04 at 07:35 -0400, Kurt Guenther wrote:
>>  
>>
>>> Kurt Guenther wrote:
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>> Has anybody gotten this working?  As root, I get picture, but no 
>>>> sound.  Gnome uses esound, so it may be that it's not configured 
>>>> right.
>>>>     
>>>
>>> I found it on the FAQ that they don't support esound.  I'm 
>>> disappointed.  It seems the product is still very weak.
>>>   
>>
>>
>> Actually, I think the product is fantastic, but it would be nice to
>> support media player fully. My guess is that Microsoft aren't helping
>> them make a better product. IMHO
(Continue reading)

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Kurt Guenther | 9 Oct 2005 19:38
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Re: codeweaver's crossover w/ Windows Media Player on Gnome

Kurt Guenther wrote:

>
> btw, I received a full refund and I offered to buy a copy on the 
> website if they fix these issues.
>
> --Kurt

Sorry, this one has been stuck in my send folder. 

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William L. Thomson Jr. | 5 Oct 2005 20:34
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Re: codeweaver's crossover w/ Windows Media Player on Gnome

On Tue, 2005-10-04 at 13:29 -0400, Kurt Guenther wrote:
> 
> What apps do you use it for?  I was hoping for Quickbooks and Windows 
> Media Player, but I'm coming up short.

Have you considered Win4Lin? It's very versatile about the price range
of Crossover.

http://www.win4lin.com/

Also for the NoMachine NXers out there
http://www.win4lin.com/content/view/159/202/

It was a solution I was considering for a while mainly for Macromedia
products like Flash. Which I was able to get working via Wine just not
reliably or in a usable manner. However it was partly issues with
DirectX that kept Flash from working in Win4Lin. I am not sure about
Windows media player, but I would imagine it to be similar with regard
to DirectX.

Worse case give them a call, and ask about the Windows apps you want to
run. I would imagine you could call CodeWeavers as well?

--

-- 
Sincerely,
William L. Thomson Jr.
Support Group
Obsidian-Studios, Inc.
http://www.obsidian-studios.com
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Russ Johnson | 5 Oct 2005 23:13

Re: codeweaver's crossover w/ Windows Media Player on Gnome

William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:

> It was a solution I was considering for a while mainly for Macromedia
> products like Flash. Which I was able to get working via Wine just not
> reliably or in a usable manner. However it was partly issues with
> DirectX that kept Flash from working in Win4Lin.
> 

Hopefully now that Adobe owns all of these, they will work with 
Codeweavers to add ironclad support for the macromedia products like 
they did with Photoshop.

Russ

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William L. Thomson Jr. | 5 Oct 2005 23:22
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Re: Adobe and Linux was codeweaver's crossover w/ Windows Media Player on Gnome

On Wed, 2005-10-05 at 17:13 -0400, Russ Johnson wrote:
>
> Hopefully now that Adobe owns all of these, they will work with 
> Codeweavers to add ironclad support for the macromedia products like 
> they did with Photoshop.

Wow, don't get me started. MM has little to no plans for Linux. Sort of
what drove me away from them, aside from canning Generator in favor or
ColdFusion?

Now Adobe does not have much more of a clue. Adobe was at Linux World SF
2005. I stopped buy their booth. Tried to inquire any product offerings
on Linux. Which unless things have changed or I missed something was
limited to Distiller. The only Adobe app ported to Linux, aside from
Acrobat Reader. I asked about PDF creation on Linux. That's where
Distiller comes in, use Linux programs to create a post script document.
Then use Distiller to covert from PS to PDF.

I tried talking to the Adobe people about Macromedia. No info, nor on
any Adobe or MM products being ported to Linux. Or that will be
available in next year. Nothing. Felt like the dude was taking the 5th.
Honestly I have no clue why Adobe was at Linux World aside from
presence. Whether they will step up and put out is yet to be seen.

Frankly it bothers me a little, since Adobe and MM were main competitors
of each other. One was mainly print, the other web. Now they are
together and their competition is?

Will Adobe contribute to Linux? Will they port any MM apps to Linux? Who
knows. However as I have heard the rumors over the years, PDF was
(Continue reading)

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Bryan J. Smith | 5 Oct 2005 23:48
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Re: Adobe and Linux was codeweaver's crossover w/ Windows Media Player on Gnome

"William L. Thomson Jr." <support@...>
wrote:
> Wow, don't get me started. MM has little to no plans for
> Linux.

From what I've heard, a Linux native Photoshop and Acrobat
Distiller are in development.

> Tried to inquire any product offerings on Linux. Which
> unless things have changed or I missed something was
> limited to Distiller.

Yep, that and Photoshop.

> That's where Distiller comes in, use Linux programs to
> create a post script document.  Then use Distiller to
> covert from PS to PDF.

Well, there's a lot more to it than that.

> I tried talking to the Adobe people about Macromedia. No
> info, nor on any Adobe or MM products being ported 
> Linux. Or that will be available in next year. Nothing.
> Felt like the dude was taking the 5th.

I'm sure it would make them Microsoft enemy #1 if they did.

> Now they are together and their competition is?

Microsoft -- big time!
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William L. Thomson Jr. | 6 Oct 2005 01:08
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Re: Adobe and Linux was codeweaver's crossover w/ Windows Media Player on Gnome

On Wed, 2005-10-05 at 14:48 -0700, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
>
> > That's where Distiller comes in, use Linux programs to
> > create a post script document.  Then use Distiller to
> > covert from PS to PDF.
> 
> Well, there's a lot more to it than that.

That's what I do now with Distiller just one windows? For some reason I
can't create valid PDF from anything anymore. They look great on Linux
in anything, PDF viewer, Acrobat. But if I view in windows, no good. If
I use a PostScript file instead on Linux, and run it through Distiller
on Windows. I get a valid PDF for all platforms.

> > I tried talking to the Adobe people about Macromedia. No
> > info, nor on any Adobe or MM products being ported 
> > Linux. Or that will be available in next year. Nothing.
> > Felt like the dude was taking the 5th.
> 
> I'm sure it would make them Microsoft enemy #1 if they did.

I am not sure MS was the reason dude was not talking at the booth. When
I got him to talk, he basically said what I mentioned above could be
done with Distiller on Linux. Beyond that, I basically tried to get the
expo presentation out of him. Nothing. Listened to a few other
conversations going on at the booth at other times. Nothing. I think in
some ways lack of having a clue more so than NDAs. :)

> > Now they are together and their competition is?
>
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Bryan J. Smith | 6 Oct 2005 01:21
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Re: Adobe and Linux was codeweaver's crossover w/ Windows Media Player on Gnome

"William L. Thomson Jr." <support@...>
wrote:
> I doubt MS can do anything to Adobe at the moment.

Microsoft could do _exactly_ what they did to Corel after
Corel bought WordPerfect, withhold _all_ technical
documentation for forthcoming Windows releases.  This would
prevent Adobe from being able to develop for Windows, and
essentially push back their release dates, as well as the
loss of "insider information" on functions, etc...

> Now, my reference to HTML was back in the day. Present day
> PDF is a widely used format.

HTML without is just context.
HTML with CSS adds some style.
But it's hardly a publication-quality, rendered format.

Postscript is best rendered by strongly typed document
formats, such as TeX (content+style in one) and OpenDocument
XML (content+style in multiple files w/standards).

--

-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith@...     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)
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Kurt Guenther | 6 Oct 2005 00:33
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Re: Adobe and Linux was codeweaver's crossover w/ Windows Media Player on Gnome

Bryan J. Smith wrote:

> >From what I've heard, a Linux native Photoshop and Acrobat
>
>Distiller are in development.
>  
>

That's friggin' good news.   I'll certainly buy a copy of acrobat.

I'd also buy a copy of MS-Office for LInux.

--Kurt

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Bryan J. Smith | 6 Oct 2005 00:43
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Re: Adobe and Linux was codeweaver's crossover w/ Windows Media Player on Gnome

Kurt Guenther <kurtg@...> wrote:
> That's friggin' good news.   I'll certainly buy a copy of
> acrobat.

The alternative is to just use a suite

> I'd also buy a copy of MS-Office for LInux.

I would definitely *NOT*.
Have you tried MS Office for Mac?
Serious portability issues!

The best conversation I had once was with a Microsoft
developer who worked on the Mac port.  He cursed the heck out
of his Windows counterparts because they are totally
oblivious to portability issues.

The Mac developers do a good job with their import (so they
can read documents from the x86/Windows versions).
But their export is a futile endeavor (as the x86/Windows
version expects arbitrary binary alignment).

All MS Office developers need a serious lesson in data
alignment, endianness and byte order -- starting with just a
simple lesson in how to write structures/objects that don't
change everytime you build on a newer compiler or against a
newer library.

MS Office for Linux would have the same document portability
issues as MS Office for MacOS X does -- especially sending
(Continue reading)

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Kurt Guenther | 6 Oct 2005 01:08
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Re: Adobe and Linux was codeweaver's crossover w/ Windows Media Player on Gnome

Bryan J. Smith wrote:

> I would definitely *NOT*.
>
>Have you tried MS Office for Mac?
>Serious portability issues!
>  
>

Good rant.   No wonder the MS required the "Itanic" to run in little endian.

I'd still buy a number of commercial applications if they were available.

--Kurt

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Bryan J. Smith | 6 Oct 2005 01:18
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Re: Adobe and Linux was codeweaver's crossover w/ Windows Media Player on Gnome

Kurt Guenther <kurtg@...> wrote:
> Good rant.   No wonder the MS required the "Itanic" to run
> in little endian.

It's far worse than that.  The lack of consistent structures
and the use of binary record reads/writes is why a simple
compiler change can result in an incompatible format.  It's
gotten better in newer versions as Microsoft realized it was
a major issue.

But it's safe to say that MS Office is a x86/Win32 _only_
codebase, and you will NOT see a Win64 version in a long,
long-time -- basically until their XML formats are truly
standardized.  Their 2003 submissions are not being used for
Office 12.  For Microsoft's own sake, they had better hope
their own XML formats take hold.

> I'd still buy a number of commercial applications if they
> were available.

And I often do myself.

--

-- 
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William L. Thomson Jr. | 6 Oct 2005 01:15
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Re: Adobe and Linux was codeweaver's crossover w/ Windows Media Player on Gnome

On Wed, 2005-10-05 at 19:08 -0400, Kurt Guenther wrote:
>
> I'd still buy a number of commercial applications if they were available.

I agree that if programs for Linux weren't freely available I would buy
copies. I do not expect everything Linux to be free. I have products I
have bought and use.

Others like Code Warrior for Linux that well... I never used Code
Warrior on Windows. On Linux I would rather stick with Anjuta, KDevelop
or other open source IDE's. Although given the need I might shell out
the cash for Sun Studio 10.

--

-- 
Sincerely,
William L. Thomson Jr.
Support Group
Obsidian-Studios, Inc.
http://www.obsidian-studios.com

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Bryan J. Smith | 5 Oct 2005 23:18
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Re: codeweaver's crossover w/ Windows Media Player on Gnome

Russ Johnson <russ@...> wrote:
> Hopefully now that Adobe owns all of these, they will work
> with Codeweavers to add ironclad support for the macromedia
> products like they did with Photoshop.

I was not aware that Adobe worked with CodeWeavers.
In fact, I thought Photoshop on WINE was due to the fact that
Disney put in the effort to get it running for 30,000
some-odd desktops?

--

-- 
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William L. Thomson Jr. | 5 Oct 2005 23:28
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Re: codeweaver's crossover w/ Windows Media Player on Gnome

On Wed, 2005-10-05 at 14:18 -0700, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> 
> I was not aware that Adobe worked with CodeWeavers.

Me either, and both had booths a Linux World. Neither said anything
about the other. I have to comment on CodeWeavers marketing. I got this
thing called a wine saver. :) Which it literally is, it's a suction top
for a wine bottle in place of the cork once opened ;)

Some wine industry people in CA liked it, not to mention indirectly
relating to CodeWeavers Wine.

> In fact, I thought Photoshop on WINE was due to the fact that
> Disney put in the effort to get it running for 30,000
> some-odd desktops?

Disney is an amazing company. In fact it's because of Disney we have
Flash. Flash originally was funded by At&t I believe to be a drawing
program for pen point operating systems. At&t saw no market, and bailed
on the program.

Disney steps in, and sees it's potential for their concept of tweening.
Next thing you know Flash has tweening abilities, and in some cases
Disney is using it for cartoons and etc. Then, not sure about now, I
imagine it's evolved. Of course MM saw Flash's potential for web, and
the reset is history.

--

-- 
Sincerely,
William L. Thomson Jr.
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Russ Johnson | 5 Oct 2005 23:27

Re: codeweaver's crossover w/ Windows Media Player on Gnome

Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> Russ Johnson <russ@...> wrote:
> 
>>Hopefully now that Adobe owns all of these, they will work
>>with Codeweavers to add ironclad support for the macromedia
>>products like they did with Photoshop.
> 
> 
> I was not aware that Adobe worked with CodeWeavers.
> In fact, I thought Photoshop on WINE was due to the fact that
> Disney put in the effort to get it running for 30,000
> some-odd desktops?
> 
> 
> 

I wish I had the link to the article that I read about it when it was 
first released. Adobe contributed several developers to the effort 
according to the article.
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Randy Ramsdell | 5 Oct 2005 20:02
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Re: codeweaver's crossover w/ Windows Media Player on Gnome

On Tue, 2005-10-04 at 13:29 -0400, Kurt Guenther wrote:
> Randy Ramsdell wrote:
> 
> >On Tue, 2005-10-04 at 07:35 -0400, Kurt Guenther wrote:
> >  
> >
> >>Kurt Guenther wrote:
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>Has anybody gotten this working?  As root, I get picture, but no 
> >>>sound.  Gnome uses esound, so it may be that it's not configured right.
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>I found it on the FAQ that they don't support esound.  I'm 
> >>disappointed.  It seems the product is still very weak.
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >Actually, I think the product is fantastic, but it would be nice to
> >support media player fully. My guess is that Microsoft aren't helping
> >them make a better product. IMHO
> >  
> >
> 
> What apps do you use it for?  I was hoping for Quickbooks and Windows 
> Media Player, but I'm coming up short.
> 
> --Kurt
>
(Continue reading)

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Kurt Guenther | 5 Oct 2005 20:37
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Re: codeweaver's crossover w/ Windows Media Player on Gnome

Randy Ramsdell wrote:

> Kurt, I used Xover for evaluation only. I recall we wanted it for
>
>Quickbooks, and MS office components. I also remember we thought it was
>a nice product and would be a good way to run those apps. Various other
>spurious apps were installed also, but I don't remember those. The
>business closed shortly after that, so I don't have any "long-term"
>success stories to tell. It seemed to work well during the evaluation
>and we thought it interesting that it "simulated" a windows reboot after
>we installed these apps. My goal here to replace the final desktops that
>were running windows. Since we could not a good replacement for
>Quickbooks, we would have used it with Xover.
>
>  
>

thanks.  I have me dirty hands on the 5.0 beta.   I'm still configuring 
it, but I'll stick with it for a while.

--Kurt

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