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Andreas Kolbe | 27 Jun 2012 22:25
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Re: O'Dwyer

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 8:19 PM, geni <geniice@...> wrote:

> On 27 June 2012 18:51, Andreas Kolbe <jayen466@...> wrote:> And
> hell, there really are two points of view about copyright,
>
> I understand you've not really studied the subject but there are far
> more than that.

Let's just start with the notion that there might be more than just *one*
view. ;)

Useful article about the Internet's impact on musicians, in an independent
UK music newspaper:

http://www.thestoolpigeon.co.uk/features/interview-robert-levine-ben-watt-sopa-internet-piracy.html

---o0o---

*How well drafted is SOPA (Stop Online Piracy Act) and what impact do you
think it will have? *

That’s very hard to answer because it’s a complicated law that keeps
changing almost daily. I think SOPA had some problems, some of which were
solved before Christmas and almost all of which will be solved when the
DNS-blocking provisions are blocked. At the same time, most of the
objections were a little silly — enforcing copyright isn’t censorship, and
I can’t see how keeping the current structure of the internet the same way
it was in 1995 is more important than a body of law that’s hundreds of
years old.
(Continue reading)

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Thomas Morton | 27 Jun 2012 22:46
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Re: O'Dwyer

On 27 June 2012 21:25, Andreas Kolbe <jayen466@...> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 8:19 PM, geni <geniice@...> wrote:
>
> > On 27 June 2012 18:51, Andreas Kolbe <jayen466@...> wrote:> And
> > hell, there really are two points of view about copyright,
> >
> > I understand you've not really studied the subject but there are far
> > more than that.
>
>
>
> Let's just start with the notion that there might be more than just *one*
> view. ;)
>
>
It's a question of extremes.

At one extreme there are, for example, music executives who see a risk to
they fat paychecks, and prefer a model where they can control the
distribution and license costs indefinitely.

On the other extreme are people who not only want something for nothing,
but consider it an inherent right they deserve it.

I find both of these people objectionable.

<ascends soap box>

The aggravating thing about copyright reform lobby is that I often find
(Continue reading)

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Andreas Kolbe | 27 Jun 2012 23:05
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Re: O'Dwyer

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Thomas Morton <morton.thomas@...
> wrote:

> On the topic of Jimmy; Wikipedia is his calling card, it opens doors. I
> think he hasn't done enough in many situations to distance his own views
> from us; which is unfortunate. But not necessarily deliberate :)
>
> As I said before; Wikipedia should have it's own view.
>
> It would be interesting to see the community develop its own high profile
> media contacts so this view can be communicated to the world!
>
>

If Jimmy can write this in The Guardian (a paper which really seems to like
him a lot),

---o0o---

Together, we won the battle against Sopa and Pipa. Together, we can win
this one too.

---o0o---

and it ends up copied in newspapers around the world,

https://news.google.co.uk/news/story?q=%22Together,+we+won+the+battle+against+Sopa+and+Pipa.+Together,+we+can+win+this+one+too.%22&hl=en&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1066&bih=743&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ncl=dgWkAFmBLjQBsNMJyGJqPnbvsPpkM&sa=X&ei=xXTrT8rQHYqp8QO_hqXVBQ&ved=0CC0QqgIwAA

attributed to the Wikipedia founder, then there really is no discernible
difference between his view and Wikipedia's, or Google's.
(Continue reading)

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geni | 27 Jun 2012 23:16
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Re: O'Dwyer

On 27 June 2012 22:05, Andreas Kolbe <jayen466@...> wrote:
> attributed to the Wikipedia founder, then there really is no discernible
> difference between his view and Wikipedia's, or Google's.

"wikipedia" doesn't really have views in the conventional sense. The
amorphous blob that is the Wikipedia community does to an extent and
it is well documented that they conflict with jimbo from time to time.

Trying to line up wikipedia and google though is just more evidence
you haven't been paying attention. Differing approaches to user
privacy and PLC vs non profit being the most obvious differences.

--

-- 
geni

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Jay Walsh | 28 Jun 2012 00:42
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Re: O'Dwyer

>
>
> > It would be interesting to see the community develop its own high profile
> > media contacts so this view can be communicated to the world!
> >
> >
>
> If Jimmy can write this in The Guardian (a paper which really seems to like
> him a lot),
>
> ---o0o---
>
> Together, we won the battle against Sopa and Pipa. Together, we can win
> this one too.
>
> ---o0o---
>
> and it ends up copied in newspapers around the world,
>
>
> https://news.google.co.uk/news/story?q=%22Together,+we+won+the+battle+against+Sopa+and+Pipa.+Together,+we+can+win+this+one+too.%22&hl=en&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf
> .,cf.osb&biw=1066&bih=743&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ncl=dgWkAFmBLjQBsNMJyGJqPnbvsPpkM&sa=X&ei=xXTrT8rQHYqp8QO_hqXVBQ&ved=0CC0QqgIwAA
>
> attributed to the Wikipedia founder, then there really is no discernible
> difference between his view and Wikipedia's, or Google's.
>
>
Hi folks -  I'm a bit late to this thread, but I wanted to chime in. The
Communications Committee list/group brought up the issue of some wildly
inaccurate headlines on this story over the last 48hrs, and with their help
(Continue reading)

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Andreas Kolbe | 28 Jun 2012 02:37
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Re: O'Dwyer

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 11:42 PM, Jay Walsh <jwalsh@...> wrote:

> >
> >
> > > It would be interesting to see the community develop its own high
> profile
> > > media contacts so this view can be communicated to the world!
> > >
> > >
> >
> > If Jimmy can write this in The Guardian (a paper which really seems to
> like
> > him a lot),
> >
> > ---o0o---
> >
> > Together, we won the battle against Sopa and Pipa. Together, we can win
> > this one too.
> >
> > ---o0o---
> >
> > and it ends up copied in newspapers around the world,
> >
> >
> >
> https://news.google.co.uk/news/story?q=%22Together,+we+won+the+battle+against+Sopa+and+Pipa.+Together,+we+can+win+this+one+too.%22&hl=en&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf
> >
> .,cf.osb&biw=1066&bih=743&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ncl=dgWkAFmBLjQBsNMJyGJqPnbvsPpkM&sa=X&ei=xXTrT8rQHYqp8QO_hqXVBQ&ved=0CC0QqgIwAA
> >
> > attributed to the Wikipedia founder, then there really is no discernible
(Continue reading)

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Phil Nash | 28 Jun 2012 02:52
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Re: O'Dwyer

>> I know how quickly a bad headline can spiral into more headlines and
>> echoing of false information.

The Wikipedia Arbitration Committee don't, apparently.

>> Just wanted to let you know that there's almost always an effort underway
>> to get corrections recorded. Jimmy is also very sensitive to these facts
>> and frequently when he sees an issue in a story he was interviewed for he
>> writes directly to the reporter for a fix.

But not so sensitive to the effects his faulty judgements have on the real 
people who have given so much to Wikipedia.

When Wales accepts his judgement was rushed and faulty in my case, I'll 
respect him; until then, I doubt he'll be welcome in Liverpool.

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geni | 28 Jun 2012 13:30
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Re: O'Dwyer

On 28 June 2012 01:37, Andreas Kolbe <jayen466@...> wrote:
>
> Jay, what did Jimmy expect the press to report? None of you have been doing
> this since yesterday. Jimmy's very petition is signed "Jimmy Wales,
> Wikipedia founder".
>
> http://www.change.org/petitions/ukhomeoffice-stop-the-extradition-of-richard-o-dwyer-to-the-usa-saverichard
>
> This is Wikipedia's name that is being leveraged here, pure and simply. And
> consciously so, deliberately, intentionally, knowingly.

Yeah we get it you don't like Jimbo. Is there any reason we should care?

--

-- 
geni

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geni | 27 Jun 2012 23:10
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Re: O'Dwyer

On 27 June 2012 21:25, Andreas Kolbe <jayen466@...> wrote:
> Let's just start with the notion that there might be more than just *one*
> view. ;)

Why start there? Again I understand you haven't really studied
copyright but quite a few wikipedians have. So everything from
copyright maximalist anarco-capitalists to the usual annoying
everything should be free crowd is well understood. And thats before
we even begin to consider historic positions and those that involve
technology that hasn't been invented yet.

> Useful article about the Internet's impact on musicians, in an independent
> UK music newspaper:
>
>http://www.thestoolpigeon.co.uk/features/interview-robert-levine-ben-watt-sopa-internet-piracy.html
>

Not really. No new stats no worthwhile legal or technical analysis.

> ---o0o---
>
> *How well drafted is SOPA (Stop Online Piracy Act) and what impact do you
> think it will have? *
>

SOAP is dead. It is largely irrelevant at this point. Perhaps you
couldn't find anyone talking about ACTA but that suggests a concerning
lack of google skills. Incidentally the length of your quote is really
pushing it a bit with regards to the UKs fair dealing provisions. But
perhaps you are unconcerned with such matters.
(Continue reading)

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Nikola Smolenski | 28 Jun 2012 08:47
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Re: O'Dwyer

On 27/06/12 22:25, Andreas Kolbe wrote:
> I can’t see how keeping the current structure of the internet the same way
> it was in 1995 is more important than a body of law that’s hundreds of
> years old.

Excellently put. He really can't.


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