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André Bleau | 14 May 2012 15:22
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Someone is pretending to be some Cygwin's support


Hi, 

A few minutes after sending my last post to the cygwin at cygwin dot com list, I received this,

seemingly from cygwin at cygwin dot com, but really from some joe1assitly at gmail dot com.

-------------------------------------------------------

__________________________________

Type your response ABOVE THIS LINE to reply
Re: Time to obsolete the opengl package ?
1QA4xxx2a  |  MAY 14, 2012  |  12:57PM UTC 
Thank you for submitting your request. We have received your request and are working on responding to you as
soon as possible. If you have any additional information to add to this case, please reply to this email.

 Thanks in advance for your patience and support. 
This message was sent to myname at myaddress in reference to Case #81939. 

-------------------------------------------------------

I guess that someone has setup a program to monitor our list and send automated replies. A little googling

shows that it also appended recently on debian's lists.

The funniest thing is the request to top-post. The less funny thing is that might be a fishing attempt.

Please advise,
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Christopher Faylor | 14 May 2012 16:36
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Re: Someone is pretending to be some Cygwin's support

On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 09:22:37AM -0400, Andr? Bleau wrote:
>A few minutes after sending my last post to the cygwin at cygwin dot
>com list, I received this,
>
>seemingly from cygwin at cygwin dot com, but really from some
>joe1assitly at gmail dot com.

How very annoying.  I've already nuked someone like this once.

I see one potential abuser in the subscriber list for this ML so lets
see if they respond to this message.

cgf
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Christopher Faylor | 14 May 2012 16:41

Re: Someone is pretending to be some Cygwin's support

On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 10:36:14AM -0400, Christopher Faylor wrote:
>On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 09:22:37AM -0400, Andr? Bleau wrote:
>>A few minutes after sending my last post to the cygwin at cygwin dot
>>com list, I received this,
>>
>>seemingly from cygwin at cygwin dot com, but really from some
>>joe1assitly at gmail dot com.
>
>How very annoying.  I've already nuked someone like this once.
>
>I see one potential abuser in the subscriber list for this ML so lets
>see if they respond to this message.

Actually, if you, or anyone, gets one of these please send a copy of
the message to postmaster.  Include all headers so that we can track
this down.

So far, I haven't gotten anything bounced back to my message above.

cgf
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Achim Gratz | 14 May 2012 19:37
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Re: Someone is pretending to be some Cygwin's support

Christopher Faylor writes:
> Actually, if you, or anyone, gets one of these please send a copy of
> the message to postmaster.  Include all headers so that we can track
> this down.

This is happening on a few debian lists as well, Google will show you.
It is unconcluive if he's even subscribed to all these lists, some list
admins swear that he is not, so he may actually pull them from someplace
else.  As far as I've been able to track it down, the mails come from a
test installation of a "User Help Desk" at http://portal.joegiglio.org
created by a guy named Joe Giglio which apparently works as a QA for the
company that makes the software (Assistly from desk.com).  The company
does not have any email address on their website and the one from the
whois entry from the portal site is apparently ignored.  I've deleted
the mails I've received so far, but I'll surely get another one in
response to this post, so where do I send the headers then?

Regards,
Achim.
--

-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

SD adaptation for Waldorf microQ V2.22R2:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSDada
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LMH | 14 May 2012 19:46

Re: Someone is pretending to be some Cygwin's support

As an aside, I've wondered for some time why this group is a mailing 
list and not a vBulitin type forum. Would not such spam be easier to 
control with forum admin tools? At least a user needs to sign up 
(possibly with some form of CAPTCHA) and the account needs to be 
approved and activated. At least such spam wouldn't automatically end up 
in mailboxes and I believe that it is harder to implement fishing though 
forum posts.

Just some thoughts...

LMH

Achim Gratz wrote:
> Christopher Faylor writes:
>> Actually, if you, or anyone, gets one of these please send a copy of
>> the message to postmaster.  Include all headers so that we can track
>> this down.
>
> This is happening on a few debian lists as well, Google will show you.
> It is unconcluive if he's even subscribed to all these lists, some list
> admins swear that he is not, so he may actually pull them from someplace
> else.  As far as I've been able to track it down, the mails come from a
> test installation of a "User Help Desk" at http://portal.joegiglio.org
> created by a guy named Joe Giglio which apparently works as a QA for the
> company that makes the software (Assistly from desk.com).  The company
> does not have any email address on their website and the one from the
> whois entry from the portal site is apparently ignored.  I've deleted
> the mails I've received so far, but I'll surely get another one in
> response to this post, so where do I send the headers then?
>
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Ken Jackson | 14 May 2012 20:12
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Re: Someone is pretending to be some Cygwin's support

==== Mon, May 14, 2012 at 01:46PM -0400 LMH wrote:
> As an aside, I've wondered for some time why this group is a mailing
> list and not a vBulletin type forum.

I second the motion.

-Ken Jackson
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Daniel Colascione | 14 May 2012 20:30

Re: Someone is pretending to be some Cygwin's support

On 5/14/12 11:12 AM, Ken Jackson wrote:
> ==== Mon, May 14, 2012 at 01:46PM -0400 LMH wrote:
>> As an aside, I've wondered for some time why this group is a mailing
>> list and not a vBulletin type forum.
> 
> I second the motion.
> 

No.

Mailing lists are infinitely easier to filter, archive, and read. I
have my choice of client. Email supports cryptographic authentication.
Really, the "forum" model is a humongous step backward from the state
of the art of the 1980s.

No, please, let's stick with email. If you'd rather access the list
using a forum-style interface, consider gmane. (Note that you can
access an email list as a "forum", but not a "forum" as an email list.)
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Mark Rousell | 14 May 2012 21:10
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Re: Someone is pretending to be some Cygwin's support


On 14/05/2012 19:30, Daniel Colascione wrote:
> On 5/14/12 11:12 AM, Ken Jackson wrote:
>> ==== Mon, May 14, 2012 at 01:46PM -0400 LMH wrote:
>>> As an aside, I've wondered for some time why this group is a mailing
>>> list and not a vBulletin type forum.
>>
>> I second the motion.
>>
> 
> No.
> 
> Mailing lists are infinitely easier to filter, archive, and read. I
> have my choice of client. Email supports cryptographic authentication.
[...]
> No, please, let's stick with email. If you'd rather access the list
> using a forum-style interface, consider gmane. (Note that you can
> access an email list as a "forum", but not a "forum" as an email
> list.)

I wholeheartedly agree. Let's stick with email.

> Really, the "forum" model is a humongous step backward from the state
> of the art of the 1980s.

Indeed. It needn't be like this, forums could be so much better, but
they are not.

--

-- 
MarkR
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Christopher Faylor | 14 May 2012 21:20
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Re: Someone is pretending to be some Cygwin's support

On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 11:30:49AM -0700, Daniel Colascione wrote:
>On 5/14/12 11:12 AM, Ken Jackson wrote:
>> ==== Mon, May 14, 2012 at 01:46PM -0400 LMH wrote:
>>> As an aside, I've wondered for some time why this group is a mailing
>>> list and not a vBulletin type forum.
>> 
>> I second the motion.
>
>No.
>
>Mailing lists are infinitely easier to filter, archive, and read. I
>have my choice of client. Email supports cryptographic authentication.
>Really, the "forum" model is a humongous step backward from the state
>of the art of the 1980s.
>
>No, please, let's stick with email. If you'd rather access the list
>using a forum-style interface, consider gmane. (Note that you can
>access an email list as a "forum", but not a "forum" as an email list.)

Don't worry, I'm not going to go to the effort involved in making a
"forum".  We get people who spam bugzilla *all* *of* *the* *time*.  Why
would a forum be any different?  It's even harder to police because you
need something different than the spam machinery which keeps the mailing
lists at this site relatively spam free.  Maintain two distinct
spam-blocking mechanisms?  I don't think so.

So, I don't see any benefit but, even if I did, I wouldn't be inclined
to add this infrastructure to sourceware.org just for Cygwin.

Also, as most readers of this list know, there is no "voting" here so
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Ryan Johnson | 14 May 2012 21:24
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Re: Someone is pretending to be some Cygwin's support

On 14/05/2012 12:30 PM, Daniel Colascione wrote:
> On 5/14/12 11:12 AM, Ken Jackson wrote:
>> ==== Mon, May 14, 2012 at 01:46PM -0400 LMH wrote:
>>> As an aside, I've wondered for some time why this group is a mailing
>>> list and not a vBulletin type forum.
>> I second the motion.
>>
> No.
>
> Mailing lists are infinitely easier to filter, archive, and read. I
> have my choice of client. Email supports cryptographic authentication.
> Really, the "forum" model is a humongous step backward from the state
> of the art of the 1980s.
>
> No, please, let's stick with email. If you'd rather access the list
> using a forum-style interface, consider gmane. (Note that you can
> access an email list as a "forum", but not a "forum" as an email list.)
I'll be the first to admit that a good UI is important, but they were 
arguing for a forum because it would foil spoofing and anonymous spamming.

While cryptographic authentication could stop that too, I'm not sure 
it's practical to require all postings by list members to be 
cryptographically signed. It's been around as long as I can remember 
(state of the art of the 80's, perhaps?) and still hasn't caught on 
widely yet. Did you sign your message? I didn't.

$0.02
Ryan
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Christopher Faylor | 14 May 2012 21:21
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Re: Someone is pretending to be some Cygwin's support

On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 07:37:08PM +0200, Achim Gratz wrote:
>Christopher Faylor writes:
>> Actually, if you, or anyone, gets one of these please send a copy of
>> the message to postmaster.  Include all headers so that we can track
>> this down.
>
>This is happening on a few debian lists as well, Google will show you.
>It is unconcluive if he's even subscribed to all these lists, some list
>admins swear that he is not, so he may actually pull them from someplace
>else.  As far as I've been able to track it down, the mails come from a
>test installation of a "User Help Desk" at http://portal.joegiglio.org
>created by a guy named Joe Giglio which apparently works as a QA for the
>company that makes the software (Assistly from desk.com).  The company
>does not have any email address on their website and the one from the
>whois entry from the portal site is apparently ignored.  I've deleted
>the mails I've received so far, but I'll surely get another one in
>response to this post, so where do I send the headers then?

"Actually, if you, or anyone, gets one of these please send a copy of
the message to postmaster."
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Achim Gratz | 15 May 2012 17:17
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Re: Someone is pretending to be some Cygwin's support

Christopher Faylor <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please <at> cygwin.com> writes:
> "Actually, if you, or anyone, gets one of these please send a copy of
> the message to postmaster."

Yeah, just about any postmaster?  I've got a new one from Joe Assistly and just
guessed the domain since you don't want to tell.  Hope it'll get to the right
person.

Achim.
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Christopher Faylor | 15 May 2012 19:17
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Re: Someone is pretending to be some Cygwin's support

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 03:17:01PM +0000, Achim Gratz wrote:
>Christopher Faylor <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please <at> cygwin.com> writes:
>> "Actually, if you, or anyone, gets one of these please send a copy of
>> the message to postmaster."
>
>Yeah, just about any postmaster?  I've got a new one from Joe Assistly and just
>guessed the domain since you don't want to tell.  Hope it'll get to the right
>person.

It shouldn't have to tell you what domain to use for postmaster for this
mailing list.  I don't see any reason to advertise something like an
email address for spammers to harvest.  That account gets quite enough
spam as it is.

You did manage to figure it out but, unfortunately, your forwarded
header shows that the email response likely came as the result of a
gmane post so there is nothing that we can do about it here.
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Achim Gratz | 15 May 2012 20:16
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Re: Someone is pretending to be some Cygwin's support

Christopher Faylor writes:
> It shouldn't have to tell you what domain to use for postmaster for this
> mailing list.

The four words "for this mailing list" would have been enough, thank you.

> You did manage to figure it out but, unfortunately, your forwarded
> header shows that the email response likely came as the result of a
> gmane post so there is nothing that we can do about it here.

As I said before, the messages are not necessarily harvested directly
via the account that pretends to be sending the mail.  It would be
likely that he is subscribed under a different name.  Although the
messages may be harvested in a different manner, that seems unlikely
since the reply to any of my messages so far has been almost
simultaneous with the appearance of the message on the list server
(Gmane for instance posts them quite a bit later usually).  That my
message to the list has been posted through Gmane seems to have nothing
to do with it.

Regards,
Achim.
--

-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

Wavetables for the Waldorf Blofeld:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#BlofeldUserWavetables
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Christopher Faylor | 15 May 2012 21:48
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Re: Someone is pretending to be some Cygwin's support

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 08:16:46PM +0200, Achim Gratz wrote:
>Christopher Faylor writes:
>> It shouldn't have to tell you what domain to use for postmaster for this
>> mailing list.
>
>The four words "for this mailing list" would have been enough, thank you.

If you'd actually used the two words "postmaster where?" it would have
been obvious that you hadn't missed the request to send to postmaster
but were just not clear on where to send the message.

>> You did manage to figure it out but, unfortunately, your forwarded
>> header shows that the email response likely came as the result of a
>> gmane post so there is nothing that we can do about it here.
>
>As I said before, the messages are not necessarily harvested directly
>via the account that pretends to be sending the mail.  It would be
>likely that he is subscribed under a different name.

Uh, yeah.  Of course he's subscribed under a different name.  That's the
whole reason for asking for complete email with headers.  If this was as
simple as just unsubscribing the posted email address then this
discussion would not have been happening.

>Although the messages may be harvested in a different manner, that
>seems unlikely since the reply to any of my messages so far has been
>almost simultaneous with the appearance of the message on the list
>server (Gmane for instance posts them quite a bit later usually).  That
>my message to the list has been posted through Gmane seems to have
>nothing to do with it.
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