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Ken Hiebert | 12 Aug 2012 03:15
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A scene from the new Libya

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Previously on this list.
http://www.libyaherald.com/?p=12444

Jalil in headscarf controversy as first row erupts at National Congress

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Ken Hiebert comments
This set me asking myself what is the dress code for women in the Iranian parliament.  i have been unable to
find determine that.    If it turns out that there is an Islamic dress code for women in the Iranian
parliament,  what should we conclude about the Iranian Revolution?

						ken h
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johnedmundson | 12 Aug 2012 04:15
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Re: A scene from the new Libya

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Sorry, my previous post should have been under the subject line above.
Cheers,
John

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Shane Mage | 12 Aug 2012 04:44
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Re: A scene from the new Libya

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On Aug 11, 2012, at 9:15 PM, Ken Hiebert wrote:
>
> This set me asking myself what is the dress code for women in the  
> Iranian parliament.  i have been unable to find determine that.     
> If it turns out that there is an Islamic dress code for women in the  
> Iranian parliament,  what should we conclude about the Iranian  
> Revolution?

That the Islamic Republic is exactly what it purports to be--and that  
is because it strangled the Iranian Revolution in its cradle.

Shane Mage

"scientific discovery is basically recognition of obvious realities
that self-interest or ideology have kept everybody from paying  
attention to"

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Mina Khanlarzadeh | 12 Aug 2012 04:53
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Re: A scene from the new Libya

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"Conservative dress code is a symptom of the conservative religious beliefs
of many people in the region... I was speaking on Friday to a young Iranian
woman (born since the revolution and growing up in a non-religious family
in Teheran). Wearing a full chador while at home in Iran was no big deal
for her even though she isn't the least bit religious and wears Western
clothing - skirts etc - while living in the West."

This argument seem to blame the "culture" (as if culture is homogeneous and
unified) for the mandatory Hijab forced onto women in Iran against which
they, secular and Muslim, have stood from as early as 1979. One example:

Iranian Women's March against Hijab in March 8th, 1979
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odmlfa986mk
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johnedmundson | 12 Aug 2012 05:52
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Re: A scene from the new Libya

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Mina wrote:

> "Conservative dress code is a symptom of the conservative religious beliefs
> of many people in the region... I was speaking on Friday to a young Iranian
> woman (born since the revolution and growing up in a non-religious family
> in Teheran). Wearing a full chador while at home in Iran was no big deal
> for her even though she isn't the least bit religious and wears Western
> clothing - skirts etc - while living in the West."

> This argument seem to blame the "culture" (as if culture is homogeneous and
> unified) for the mandatory Hijab forced onto women in Iran against which
> they, secular and Muslim, have stood from as early as 1979. One example:

> Iranian Women's March against Hijab in March 8th, 1979
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odmlfa986mk

I fully support the right of women to choose whether or not to wear the hijab. I
was just making the point that some women don't have a problem with wearing it -
the woman I was speaking to saw it as a cultural thing that she wouldn't
normally follow but which, for her, was not something she'd campaign about.

Personally, I find the Iranian mandatory dress code completely objectionable,as
I do the French ban on the burka.

The Libyan woman at the start of this thread should have had the absolute right
to address the Parliament without a head scarf. Using that incident to attack
(Continue reading)

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Ken Hiebert | 12 Aug 2012 06:31
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A scene from the new Libya

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Thanks to all who responded to my note:
> This set me asking myself what is the dress code for women in the Iranian
> parliament. i have been unable to find determine that. If it turns out that
> there is an Islamic dress code for women in the Iranian parliament, what should
> we conclude about the Iranian Revolution?

I think the point i am getting at is that a revolution (in Libya, in Iran, in Syria) can be incomplete and
suffer serious setbacks and yet be a genuine revolution.
I think John is making a similar point in his note.
					ken h

"I fully support the right of women to choose whether or not to wear the hijab. I
was just making the point that some women don't have a problem with wearing it -
the woman I was speaking to saw it as a cultural thing that she wouldn't
normally follow but which, for her, was not something she'd campaign about.

Personally, I find the Iranian mandatory dress code completely objectionable,as
I do the French ban on the burka.

The Libyan woman at the start of this thread should have had the absolute right
to address the Parliament without a head scarf. Using that incident to attack
the Libyan revolution though is to set it up as a straw man. No one here thinks
the Libyan revolution was bringing socialism. What it might bring is a life for
Libyans where expressing themselves politically is more possible. Unfortunately
it'll probably be a mixture, at least in the short term, of gains and losses.
Some of the secular features of the Gaddafi era will be lost. My hope is that
(Continue reading)

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johnedmundson | 12 Aug 2012 07:26
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Re: A scene from the new Libya

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Ken Wrote:
> I think the point i am getting at is that a revolution (in Libya, in Iran, in
> Syria) can be incomplete and suffer serious setbacks and yet be a genuine
> revolution.

Yes ,and if all people do is try to "prove" their case by trading good stories
for bad, simply presenting anecdotes in lieu of real evidence and analysis, they
won't be shedding any real light. They're really interesting to have and
important in their own right, but not enough.
Cheers,
John

ps. I'm not suggesting that that's what Louis did in posting this story (he's
broadly sympathetic to the Libyan revolution after all), but it does happen with
some posts.

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