[ox-en] Re: [jox] Peer Production and Societal Transformation / italian translation

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Hi Stefan,
It is an excellent contribution. I agree with most of your points except the following.
1- Money has nothing to do with the scarcity of godds, the point you barrow from Raymond. Money is an
expression, measure and preserver of congealed abstract labor in the form of abstract value. Once,
labour and its products are commoditized every thing else can potentially from sex, to even air and water
can become commodties, suply and demand determining their prices, which are distorted expressions of
their values. In this context the price of an object increases in porprtion of the demand for it and in
inversion to proportion of its supply. This as Marx brilliantly showed creates the ilustion, the one that
Raymond reproduces, that scarcity is the origin of prices and money. Of course, I agree with you, as Marx
did too, that money and labour will vanish in a fully fledged p2p which in M
 arx's formulation is nothing but advanced communism.

2- You are righ about socialism, this is a point that was made long ago by Negri in his 
Marx beyond Marx which is basically a commentary on Marx"s Grundrisse. I think Guy Debord another arch
Marxian made the same point. But if we read carefully the Critique of Gotha programme, Economic and
Philosophical Manuscrpts of 1844, particularly parts on alianated labour and communism, and sections
fo Grundrisse where Marx talks about advanced communism, we can easily see that in Marx view socialism
bears within itself many aspects of capitalism wiyhout being the same. It is debatable whether Marx view
of first socialism and then advanced communism was a good project for his era, but in our era we can reach
advanced communism without going through socialism.
3- This brings us to your points on state and politics which are very similar to those of Alain Badiou who is
aMaoist (advanced in his AntiPolitics). Today major infrastructures including telecommunication and
major natural resources are owned by capitalists i.e corporations or states. This ownership is
guaranteed by property rights which are protected by violence of state. Is it possible to generalise p2p
to all production without collectivization of these strategic resources? Is such a collectivization
possible without prior abolishing of the state? If the answer to these questions is negative, if the
generalization of p2p requires a social revolution then we need to engage the state in a negative way. We