Erik Moeller | 7 Aug 2012 03:06
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Phabricator debrief (was: Serious alternatives to Gerrit)

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 10:26 PM, Erik Moeller <erik <at> wikimedia.org> wrote:
> As one quick update, we're also in touch with Evan Priestley, who's no
> longer at Facebook and now running Phabricator as a dedicated open
> source project and potential business. If all goes well, Evan's going
> to come visit WMF sometime soon, which will be an opportunity to
> seriously explore whether Phabricator could be a viable long term
> alternative (it's probably not a near term one). Will post more
> details if this meeting materializes.

We had this conversation with Evan today. The following people
participated: David Schoonover, Brion Vibber, Rob Lanphier, Chad
Horohoe, Terry Chay, Ryan Lane, Ori Livneh, Roan Kattouw, and myself.
Evan gave us a walkthrough of Phabricator's current capabilities,
comparing it against the evaluation criteria on
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git/Gerrit_evaluation .

Some thoughts below; if you participated, please feel free to jump in
with your thoughts/impressions from the conversation, and/or to
contradict anything I'm saying. :-)

As I understood it, the big gotchas for Phabricator adoption are that
Phabricator doesn't manage repositories - it knows how to poll a Git
repo, but it doesn't have per-repo access controls or even more than a
shallow awareness of what a repository is; it literally shells out to
git to perform its operations, e.g. poll for changes - and would still
need some work to efficiently deal with hundreds of repositories,
long-lived remote branches, and some of the other fun characteristics
of Wikimedia's repos. Full repo management is on the roadmap, without
an exact date, and Evan is very open to making tweaks and changes as
needed, especially if it serves a potential flagship user like
(Continue reading)

Ori Livneh | 7 Aug 2012 04:02
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Re: Phabricator debrief (was: Serious alternatives to Gerrit)

On Monday, August 6, 2012 at 6:06 PM, Erik Moeller wrote:
> If so, based on this, I'm wondering if there are any champions who are
> willing to do the legwork to 1) set up Phabricator for a current WMF
> engineering project, 2) convince their team (and potentially the rest
> of the world) to start using it?

I'm down. S was nearly reduced to tears (-- super manly, non-embarassing Chuck Norris tears) by Gerrit the
other day, so even though he's on vacation I'm pretty confident he'd be down to try it out too. (We are the
only two committers to the E3Experiments repository.)

I'd like to set this up on a third-party host so we don't add to the list of machines ops has to worry about, and
so we aren't affected by labs upgrades. The monetary cost would be trivial and I don't mind shouldering it myself.

--
Ori Livneh
ori <at> wikimedia.org
Ori Livneh | 7 Aug 2012 04:35
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Re: Phabricator debrief (was: Serious alternatives to Gerrit)

….and we're up: http://phab.256.io/  

--
Ori Livneh
ori <at> wikimedia.org

On Monday, August 6, 2012 at 7:02 PM, Ori Livneh wrote:

> On Monday, August 6, 2012 at 6:06 PM, Erik Moeller wrote:
> > If so, based on this, I'm wondering if there are any champions who are
> > willing to do the legwork to 1) set up Phabricator for a current WMF
> > engineering project, 2) convince their team (and potentially the rest
> > of the world) to start using it?
>  
>  
>  
> I'm down. S was nearly reduced to tears (-- super manly, non-embarassing Chuck Norris tears) by Gerrit the
other day, so even though he's on vacation I'm pretty confident he'd be down to try it out too. (We are the
only two committers to the E3Experiments repository.)
>  
> I'd like to set this up on a third-party host so we don't add to the list of machines ops has to worry about, and
so we aren't affected by labs upgrades. The monetary cost would be trivial and I don't mind shouldering it myself.
>  
> --
> Ori Livneh
> ori <at> wikimedia.org (mailto:ori <at> wikimedia.org)

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(Continue reading)

Jeremy Baron | 7 Aug 2012 04:38
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Re: Phabricator debrief (was: Serious alternatives to Gerrit)

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 10:35 PM, Ori Livneh <ori <at> wikimedia.org> wrote:
> ….and we're up: http://phab.256.io/

Then how do people get accounts? another perfect case for OAuth (or
whatever we end up implementing instead)

(I don't see an obvious way for anons to create new accounts but maybe
I'm just missing it)

-Jeremy

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Daniel Friesen | 7 Aug 2012 06:14

Re: Phabricator debrief (was: Serious alternatives to Gerrit)

On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 19:38:11 -0700, Jeremy Baron <jeremy <at> tuxmachine.com>  
wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 10:35 PM, Ori Livneh <ori <at> wikimedia.org> wrote:
>> ….and we're up: http://phab.256.io/
>
> Then how do people get accounts? another perfect case for OAuth (or
> whatever we end up implementing instead)
>
> (I don't see an obvious way for anons to create new accounts but maybe
> I'm just missing it)
>
> -Jeremy

;) You just had to put review and auth -- the two projects I wish I had a  
contract to finish one of -- in the same email...

--

-- 
~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]

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Erik Moeller | 7 Aug 2012 04:39
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Re: Phabricator debrief (was: Serious alternatives to Gerrit)

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 7:02 PM, Ori Livneh <ori <at> wikimedia.org> wrote:

> (We are the only two committers to the E3Experiments repository.)

That's a good and a bad thing as it'll likely mean we're not going to
get a lot of insight into the code review benefits & drawbacks unless
we get a few more people excited to work on that particular extension.

A consequence of having an extension (as opposed to something
standalone like the mobile app or Limn) as the test case would be that
we'll have to figure out how to make it work well with the MW
deployment process - not sure how hard that would be in practice, but
again something you'd have to solve without leaning too much on
others.

> I'd like to set this up on a third-party host so we don't add to the list of machines ops has to worry about, and
so we aren't affected by labs upgrades. The monetary cost would be trivial and I don't mind shouldering it myself.

I'm not terribly fond of that idea as it sounds like a truly
dead-ended approach; it'd be nice to have something that can
potentially grow in number of users / maintainers, and can be more
straightforwardly prepared for deployment on production servers. Labs
upgrades will happen, yes, but we have to grow discipline in
minimizing downtime by eating our own dogfood.

> ….and we're up: http://phab.256.io/

But I'll grant you that it's the fastest thing to do. :) I'd be in
favor of moving it to a Labs instance when possible.

(Continue reading)

Alolita Sharma | 7 Aug 2012 05:46
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Re: Phabricator debrief (was: Serious alternatives to Gerrit)

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 7:39 PM, Erik Moeller <erik <at> wikimedia.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 7:02 PM, Ori Livneh <ori <at> wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
>> (We are the only two committers to the E3Experiments repository.)
>
> That's a good and a bad thing as it'll likely mean we're not going to
> get a lot of insight into the code review benefits & drawbacks unless
> we get a few more people excited to work on that particular extension.
>
Yup.

> A consequence of having an extension (as opposed to something
> standalone like the mobile app or Limn) as the test case would be that
> we'll have to figure out how to make it work well with the MW
> deployment process - not sure how hard that would be in practice, but
> again something you'd have to solve without leaning too much on
> others.
>

>> I'd like to set this up on a third-party host so we don't add to the list of machines ops has to worry about,
and so we aren't affected by labs upgrades. The monetary cost would be trivial and I don't mind shouldering
it myself.
>

> I'm not terribly fond of that idea as it sounds like a truly
> dead-ended approach; it'd be nice to have something that can
> potentially grow in number of users / maintainers, and can be more
> straightforwardly prepared for deployment on production servers. Labs
> upgrades will happen, yes, but we have to grow discipline in
> minimizing downtime by eating our own dogfood.
(Continue reading)

Ori Livneh | 7 Aug 2012 06:16
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Re: Phabricator debrief (was: Serious alternatives to Gerrit)


On Monday, August 6, 2012 at 7:39 PM, Erik Moeller wrote:

> 
> But I'll grant you that it's the fastest thing to do. :) I'd be in
> favor of moving it to a Labs instance when possible.

Mark Traceur and I are working on a puppet manifest for labs

--
Ori Livneh
ori <at> wikimedia.org
Terry Chay | 8 Aug 2012 19:26
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Re: Phabricator debrief (was: Serious alternatives to Gerrit)


On Aug 6, 2012, at 7:39 PM, Erik Moeller <erik <at> wikimedia.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 7:02 PM, Ori Livneh <ori <at> wikimedia.org> wrote:
> 
>> (We are the only two committers to the E3Experiments repository.)
> 
> That's a good and a bad thing as it'll likely mean we're not going to
> get a lot of insight into the code review benefits & drawbacks unless
> we get a few more people excited to work on that particular extension.
> 
> A consequence of having an extension (as opposed to something
> standalone like the mobile app or Limn) as the test case would be that
> we'll have to figure out how to make it work well with the MW
> deployment process - not sure how hard that would be in practice, but
> again something you'd have to solve without leaning too much on
> others.

	When I talked to Ori, the idea here was not to set up in E3Experiments in lieu of other setups, but in addition
to them.

	The reality of anything that gets deployed on cluster is that the repository would have to be managed in
gerrit. This means that the targets (until a decision is made) are to use phabricator on:

1) do extension that is in deploy but then gate on merge into gerrit.
2) do experimental extensions that aren't in deploy
3) do a project that isn't in gerrit/deploy train.

	Ori's falls into the first. I have a number of projects that might fit into that in Features, so I can ask
around, but this is actually extra work (currently) for whoever acts as the gate. Ori seems willing to for
(Continue reading)

Terry Chay | 10 Aug 2012 02:48
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Re: Phabricator debrief (was: Serious alternatives to Gerrit)


On Aug 6, 2012, at 7:39 PM, Erik Moeller <erik <at> wikimedia.org> wrote:

> A consequence of having an extension (as opposed to something
> standalone like the mobile app or Limn)

^^^^^^ Just for fun, the labs instance now tracks those repositories on GitHub

https://phabricator.wmflabs.org/diffusion/WLM/
and
https://phabricator.wmflabs.org/diffusion/LIMN/

Gmane