Docbook discussion

Kasun Gajasinghe | 19 Aug 2010 12:17

A separate Index Tab for DocBook WebHelp?

Hello list,

what do you think about having $subject along with "content" and "search" in the content pane to the index rather than having a just a link in the content pane?

I think it will make the navigation easier, isn't it?

Current output demo is at: http://www.thingbag.net/docbook/gsoc2010/doc/content/ch01.html

Thanks,

--Kasun

~~~*******'''''''''''''*******~~~
Kasun Gajasinghe,
University of Moratuwa,
Sri Lanka.
Blog: http://kasunbg.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/kasunbg

headers

Dave Pawson | 19 Aug 2010 14:11

Re: A separate Index Tab for DocBook WebHelp?

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 15:47:08 +0530
Kasun Gajasinghe <kasun.gajasinghe <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello list,
> what do you think about having $subject along with "content" and
> "search" in the content pane to the index rather than having a just a
> link in the content pane?
> I think it will make the navigation easier, isn't it?
> 
> Current output demo is at:
> http://www.thingbag.net/docbook/gsoc2010/doc/content/ch01.html
> 
> Thanks,
> --Kasun

I'm not very impressed with the accessibility Kasun?
Just try tabbing from the address bar?

-- 

regards 

--

-- 
Dave Pawson
XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
http://www.dpawson.co.uk

headers

Cramer, David W (David | 19 Aug 2010 15:06

RE: A separate Index Tab for DocBook WebHelp?

Thanks for the feedback dave. 

Since accessibility is an area of your expertise, could you provide us with a list of specific things to
address? Please provide enough detail so that we can understand the change request.  

With regard to tabbing from the address bar, is the complaint that the Contents and Search tabs and toc are
not first in the tab order? 

Thanks,
David

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Pawson [mailto:davep <at> dpawson.co.uk] 
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 7:12 AM
To: Kasun Gajasinghe
Cc: docbook <at> lists.oasis-open.org; Cramer, David W (David)
Subject: Re: [docbook] A separate Index Tab for DocBook WebHelp?

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 15:47:08 +0530
Kasun Gajasinghe <kasun.gajasinghe <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello list,
> what do you think about having $subject along with "content" and
> "search" in the content pane to the index rather than having a just a
> link in the content pane?
> I think it will make the navigation easier, isn't it?
> 
> Current output demo is at:
> http://www.thingbag.net/docbook/gsoc2010/doc/content/ch01.html
> 
> Thanks,
> --Kasun

I'm not very impressed with the accessibility Kasun?
Just try tabbing from the address bar?

-- 

regards 

--

-- 
Dave Pawson
XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
http://www.dpawson.co.uk

headers

Dave Pawson | 19 Aug 2010 18:34

Re: A separate Index Tab for DocBook WebHelp?

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 08:06:50 -0500
"Cramer, David W (David)" <dcramer <at> motive.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the feedback dave. 
> 
> Since accessibility is an area of your expertise, could you provide
> us with a list of specific things to address? Please provide enough
> detail so that we can understand the change request.  
> 
> With regard to tabbing from the address bar, is the complaint that
> the Contents and Search tabs and toc are not first in the tab order? 
> 
> Thanks,
> David

tab order is the simplest means of accessing (and assessing) web
content, so a natural order would reflect what you wanted the 
reader to see. Might be title, navlist (or skip nav list),
then the toc, as a list of 'places' in the page/site. 
View the content and list what you'd like to see as the 'natural'
reading order. 

http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-WCAG20-20060427/Overview.html#contents
wcag gives the detail if needed.

HTH

regards 

--

-- 
Dave Pawson
XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
http://www.dpawson.co.uk

headers

Kasun Gajasinghe | 19 Aug 2010 19:42

Re: A separate Index Tab for DocBook WebHelp?

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:04 PM, Dave Pawson <davep <at> dpawson.co.uk> wrote:

tab order is the simplest means of accessing (and assessing) web
content, so a natural order would reflect what you wanted the
reader to see. Might be title, navlist (or skip nav list),
then the toc, as a list of 'places' in the page/site.
View the content and list what you'd like to see as the 'natural'
reading order.

http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-WCAG20-20060427/Overview.html#contents
wcag gives the detail if needed.

HTH

Yes, that helps. Thanks Dave. We'll check out and read the guidelines you mentioned.

--Kasun

headers

Peter Desjardins | 19 Aug 2010 17:25

Re: A separate Index Tab for DocBook WebHelp?

Hi.

I don't understand the question. Are you adding a third tab for the
index to the left, navigation pane? Is this question about how to
present index entries in the the navigation pane when the index tab is
selected?

I don't see any index controls in the output demo right now. I'm
hoping there will be an index tab in the navigation pane.

The web help is looking excellent. I'm really excited about having it available.

Thank you!

Peter

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 6:17 AM, Kasun Gajasinghe
<kasun.gajasinghe <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello list,
> what do you think about having $subject along with "content" and "search" in
> the content pane to the index rather than having a just a link in the
> content pane?
> I think it will make the navigation easier, isn't it?
> Current output demo is
> at: http://www.thingbag.net/docbook/gsoc2010/doc/content/ch01.html
> Thanks,
> --Kasun
> ~~~*******'''''''''''''*******~~~
> Kasun Gajasinghe,
> University of Moratuwa,
> Sri Lanka.
> Blog: http://kasunbg.blogspot.com
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kasunbg
>

headers

Kasun Gajasinghe | 19 Aug 2010 19:39

Re: A separate Index Tab for DocBook WebHelp?

Hello Peter,

Thanks for the Compliment.

>Are you adding a third tab for the index to the left, navigation pane?

Yes, that's correct. We just needed to know whether it's good to have it like that or just a link in the "Contents" tab would be suffice.

Sorry, we didn't add the tab yet. Please have a look at [0]. It shows the index in the "Contents" pane. We are evaluating the effectiveness of moving it to a separate tab. (Please don't mind about the site styling. The build at [0] is from a pre-release webhelp customization.)

We would like to hear from you about your view about it, and about WebHelp output as a whole if you please.

Thanks You!

--Kasun

[0] http://www.thingbag.net/docbook/gsoc2010/defguideout/content/ix01.html

headers

Peter Desjardins | 19 Aug 2010 19:57

Re: A separate Index Tab for DocBook WebHelp?

Ah, I see. I strongly prefer using a third tab for the index.

The index serves the same purpose as the TOC and search. I think it's
most natural to make it available via the same sort of control.

Also, I think an index tab alongside the TOC and search tabs is more
consistent with other web help formats. Users will expect the index
tab to be there if there is an index at all.

It might be a useful feature to allow the index tab to be suppressed.
An empty index is such a sad thing.

Good luck!

Peter

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Kasun Gajasinghe
<kasun.gajasinghe <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Peter,
> Thanks for the Compliment.
>>Are you adding a third tab for the index to the left, navigation pane?
> Yes, that's correct. We just needed to know whether it's good to have it
> like that or just a link in the "Contents" tab would be suffice.
> Sorry, we didn't add the tab yet. Please have a look at [0]. It shows the
> index in the "Contents" pane. We are evaluating the effectiveness of moving
> it to a separate tab. (Please don't mind about the site styling. The build
> at [0] is from a pre-release webhelp customization.)
> We would like to hear from you about your view about it, and about WebHelp
> output as a whole if you please.
> Thanks You!
> --Kasun
>
> [0] http://www.thingbag.net/docbook/gsoc2010/defguideout/content/ix01.html

headers

Kasun Gajasinghe | 19 Aug 2010 21:41

Re: A separate Index Tab for DocBook WebHelp?

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Peter Desjardins <peter.desjardins.us <at> gmail.com> wrote:

Ah, I see. I strongly prefer using a third tab for the index.

The index serves the same purpose as the TOC and search. I think it's
most natural to make it available via the same sort of control.

Also, I think an index tab alongside the TOC and search tabs is more
consistent with other web help formats. Users will expect the index
tab to be there if there is an index at all.

It might be a useful feature to allow the index tab to be suppressed.
An empty index is such a sad thing.

That's good to hear. Thank you for your feedback. Absolutely, we should make the index-tab optional. You may not know that, search-tab too is made optional.

--Kasun

Good luck!

Peter

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Kasun Gajasinghe
<kasun.gajasinghe <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Peter,
> Thanks for the Compliment.
>>Are you adding a third tab for the index to the left, navigation pane?
> Yes, that's correct. We just needed to know whether it's good to have it
> like that or just a link in the "Contents" tab would be suffice.
> Sorry, we didn't add the tab yet. Please have a look at [0]. It shows the
> index in the "Contents" pane. We are evaluating the effectiveness of moving
> it to a separate tab. (Please don't mind about the site styling. The build
> at [0] is from a pre-release webhelp customization.)
> We would like to hear from you about your view about it, and about WebHelp
> output as a whole if you please.
> Thanks You!
> --Kasun
>
> [0] http://www.thingbag.net/docbook/gsoc2010/defguideout/content/ix01.html