Francesco Chicchiriccò | 1 Aug 16:30 2011
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Re: [C3] Java version 1.6

On 01/08/2011 16:26, Nathaniel, Alfred wrote:
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Hi all,

 

C3 is still set to 1.5 as source and target version.

Java5 is end of life since almost two years now.

 

Is there any good reason not to go 1.6?


Not that I know, so +1 for me to move to 1.6.

Regards.
-- Francesco Chicchiriccò Apache Cocoon Committer and PMC Member http://people.apache.org/~ilgrosso/
Simone Tripodi | 1 Aug 21:06 2011
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Re: [C3] Java version 1.6

Hi all guys!!!
My question is instead: is there any advantage we can get by targeting
Cocoon to Java6? Is there any specific Java6 APIs we need to improve
the existing codebase?
If yes, please can you describe?
TIA, all the best!!!
Simo

http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
http://www.99soft.org/

2011/8/1 Francesco Chicchiriccò <ilgrosso <at> apache.org>:
> On 01/08/2011 16:26, Nathaniel, Alfred wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> C3 is still set to 1.5 as source and target version.
>
> Java5 is end of life since almost two years now.
>
>
>
> Is there any good reason not to go 1.6?
>
> Not that I know, so +1 for me to move to 1.6.
>
> Regards.
>
> --
> Francesco Chicchiriccò
>
> Apache Cocoon Committer and PMC Member
> http://people.apache.org/~ilgrosso/
>

Francesco Chicchiriccò | 2 Aug 10:16 2011
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Re: [C3] Java version 1.6

On 01/08/2011 21:06, Simone Tripodi wrote:
> Hi all guys!!!
> My question is instead: is there any advantage we can get by targeting
> Cocoon to Java6? Is there any specific Java6 APIs we need to improve
> the existing codebase?
> If yes, please can you describe?

Hi Simone,
some of my favorite Java 6 features that Cocoon codebase could profit from:

* Collections Framework Enhancements and ServiceLoader [1]: Cocoon 
source code makes large use of collections, thus usage of these features 
can improve quality and performance

* Internationalization Enhancements [2]: especially now that we should 
start working on the new i18n transformer [3]

* JMX [4] and Management [5] enhancements: will we ever put this great 
Cocoon 3 stuff in production?

Last but not least, Cocoon 3 depends on many other frameworks and 
libraries that will eventually require Java 6 (and 7, soon) capabilities.

Regards.

[1] 
http://download.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/guides/lang/enhancements.html#6
[2] 
http://download.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/guides/intl/enhancements.html
[3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COCOON3-64
[4] 
http://download.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/guides/jmx/enhancements.html
[5] 
http://download.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/guides/management/enhancements.html
> 2011/8/1 Francesco Chicchiriccò<ilgrosso <at> apache.org>:
>> On 01/08/2011 16:26, Nathaniel, Alfred wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> C3 is still set to 1.5 as source and target version.
>>
>> Java5 is end of life since almost two years now.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there any good reason not to go 1.6?
>>
>> Not that I know, so +1 for me to move to 1.6.
>>
>> Regards.
--

-- 
Francesco Chicchiriccò

Apache Cocoon Committer and PMC Member
http://people.apache.org/~ilgrosso/

Steven Dolg | 2 Aug 11:00 2011

Re: [C3] Java version 1.6

Am 02.08.2011 10:16, schrieb Francesco Chicchiriccò:
> On 01/08/2011 21:06, Simone Tripodi wrote:
>> Hi all guys!!!
>> My question is instead: is there any advantage we can get by targeting
>> Cocoon to Java6? Is there any specific Java6 APIs we need to improve
>> the existing codebase?
>> If yes, please can you describe?
>
> Hi Simone,
> some of my favorite Java 6 features that Cocoon codebase could profit 
> from:
>
> * Collections Framework Enhancements and ServiceLoader [1]: Cocoon 
> source code makes large use of collections, thus usage of these 
> features can improve quality and performance
>
> * Internationalization Enhancements [2]: especially now that we should 
> start working on the new i18n transformer [3]
>
> * JMX [4] and Management [5] enhancements: will we ever put this great 
> Cocoon 3 stuff in production?
>
> Last but not least, Cocoon 3 depends on many other frameworks and 
> libraries that will eventually require Java 6 (and 7, soon) capabilities.
>
> Regards.

That's a good list and some fine reasons to switch to Java 6.

Actually my approach would be to ask if there's any downside to upgrading.
All I could think of is that someone might be bound to Java 5 (upgrade 
policies, special JVM implementations, platform limitations),
which I find highly unlikely (20 months is plenty of time to migrate).

So I'm definitely for upgrading!

>
> [1] 
> http://download.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/guides/lang/enhancements.html#6
> [2] 
> http://download.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/guides/intl/enhancements.html
> [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COCOON3-64
> [4] 
> http://download.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/guides/jmx/enhancements.html
> [5] 
> http://download.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/guides/management/enhancements.html
>> 2011/8/1 Francesco Chicchiriccò<ilgrosso <at> apache.org>:
>>> On 01/08/2011 16:26, Nathaniel, Alfred wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> C3 is still set to 1.5 as source and target version.
>>>
>>> Java5 is end of life since almost two years now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is there any good reason not to go 1.6?
>>>
>>> Not that I know, so +1 for me to move to 1.6.
>>>
>>> Regards.

Peter Hunsberger | 2 Aug 14:28 2011
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Re: [C3] Java version 1.6

>>> Hi all guys!!!
>>> My question is instead: is there any advantage we can get by targeting
>>> Cocoon to Java6? Is there any specific Java6 APIs we need to improve

[...]

>> some of my favorite Java 6 features that Cocoon codebase could profit from:
>>
>> * Collections Framework Enhancements and ServiceLoader [1]: Cocoon source code makes large use of
collections, thus usage of these features can improve quality and performance
>>
>> * Internationalization Enhancements [2]: especially now that we should start working on the new i18n
transformer [3]
>>
>> * JMX [4] and Management [5] enhancements: will we ever put this great Cocoon 3 stuff in production?
>>
>> Last but not least, Cocoon 3 depends on many other frameworks and libraries that will eventually require
Java 6 (and 7, soon) capabilities.
>>
>> Regards.
>
> That's a good list and some fine reasons to switch to Java 6.
>
[...]

>>>>
>>>> C3 is still set to 1.5 as source and target version.
>>>>
>>>> Java5 is end of life since almost two years now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is there any good reason not to go 1.6?
>>>>
>>>> Not that I know, so +1 for me to move to 1.6.
>>>>

We seem to have this discussion every few years.  There's always
people that can't upgrade.  Personally I think it's time to do it and
I wish we had done it long ago.  With C3 in particular, people should
have no dependencies in production since it is still officially Beta.
Even if they do, they can stay on a previous version after all, if it
is good enough to use at all why can't they stick with what they are
using?  Unless someone can come up with a reason not to I'd say it's
time to start a vote.

Peter Hunsberger

Nathaniel, Alfred | 2 Aug 15:56 2011

RE: [C3] Java version 1.6

Peter Hunsberger wrote:
> We seem to have this discussion every few years.  There's always
> people that can't upgrade.  Personally I think it's time to do it and
> I wish we had done it long ago.  With C3 in particular, people should
> have no dependencies in production since it is still officially Beta.
> Even if they do, they can stay on a previous version after all, if it
> is good enough to use at all why can't they stick with what they are
> using?  Unless someone can come up with a reason not to I'd say it's
> time to start a vote.

True, we had the same discussion years ago to me C2.1 from J1.3 to J1.4.
Apart from the improvements we get when using 1.6, my main point is that
real 1.5 support is not achieved by using a 1.6 javac with -source=1.5
and -target=1.5.

That happily compiles and generates 1.5 byte code containing calls to
String.isEmpty.  Only when you run that jar in a 1.5 JVM it will die
with a method-not-found exception.

Unless we have a good crowd of developers who voluntarily stick to 1.5
all the way, it is just wishful thinking that C3 is and remains 1.5
compatible.  Even if that hypothetical poor guy exists who would love
to use C3 but is stuck at Java5, I don't think we do him a favor.
Better force them to go 1.6 than to have them chase the next odd 
String.isEmpty which leaked into the release.

Hands up who is / is willing to run jdk1.5 for C3 development.

NB Jenkins is setup with 1.6.  Does infra support real 1.5 builds?

Cheers, Alfred.

The content of this e-mail is intended only for the confidential use of the person addressed. 
If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail immediately.
Thank you.

Simone Tripodi | 3 Aug 21:43 2011
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Re: [C3] Java version 1.6

Hi all guys!!!
I agree with Nathaniel, I had terrible pains with method-not-found
exception with Google Doclava simply by targeting to java1.5 but using
1.6 :P
Anyway, the animal-sniffer[1] maven plugin helps a lot on keeping code
safely 1.5 compatible - Google team used it a lot while developing
Google Guice

Anyway, I'm +0 for the upgrade and explain my personal motivations
following the list provided by Francesco - and please remember I'm
more familiar with core&optional APIs ;)

* Collections Framework Enhancements

+0: We are strongly relying on LinkedList, HashMap and LinkedHashMap
implementations; is there any impl in Java6 that could help on
improving the pipeline APIs?

* and ServiceLoader

+0: there's nothing that commons-discovery[2] cannot do compared to
Java built-in ServiceLoader; OTOH, discovery supports more features

* Internationalization Enhancements: especially now that we should
start working on the new i18n transformer [3]

+1

* JMX [4] and Management enhancements: will we ever put this great
Cocoon 3 stuff in production?

+1

Last but not least, Cocoon 3 depends on many other frameworks and
libraries that will eventually require Java 6 (and 7, soon)
capabilities.

+0: If those dependencies name start with 'S' and terminate with
'pringframework', I would personally love to see them replaced, but
that's just *my* POV :P ;)

Have a nice day, all the best!!!
Simo

[1] http://mojo.codehaus.org/animal-sniffer-maven-plugin/
[2] http://commons.apache.org/discovery/

http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
http://www.99soft.org/

On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Nathaniel, Alfred
<Alfred.Nathaniel <at> six-group.com> wrote:
> Peter Hunsberger wrote:
>> We seem to have this discussion every few years.  There's always
>> people that can't upgrade.  Personally I think it's time to do it and
>> I wish we had done it long ago.  With C3 in particular, people should
>> have no dependencies in production since it is still officially Beta.
>> Even if they do, they can stay on a previous version after all, if it
>> is good enough to use at all why can't they stick with what they are
>> using?  Unless someone can come up with a reason not to I'd say it's
>> time to start a vote.
>
> True, we had the same discussion years ago to me C2.1 from J1.3 to J1.4.
> Apart from the improvements we get when using 1.6, my main point is that
> real 1.5 support is not achieved by using a 1.6 javac with -source=1.5
> and -target=1.5.
>
> That happily compiles and generates 1.5 byte code containing calls to
> String.isEmpty.  Only when you run that jar in a 1.5 JVM it will die
> with a method-not-found exception.
>
> Unless we have a good crowd of developers who voluntarily stick to 1.5
> all the way, it is just wishful thinking that C3 is and remains 1.5
> compatible.  Even if that hypothetical poor guy exists who would love
> to use C3 but is stuck at Java5, I don't think we do him a favor.
> Better force them to go 1.6 than to have them chase the next odd
> String.isEmpty which leaked into the release.
>
> Hands up who is / is willing to run jdk1.5 for C3 development.
>
> NB Jenkins is setup with 1.6.  Does infra support real 1.5 builds?
>
> Cheers, Alfred.
>
> The content of this e-mail is intended only for the confidential use of the person addressed.
> If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail immediately.
> Thank you.
>


Gmane